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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:14 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 1592
Location: Italy
Frameset Nishiki Alien Acx Size 18 original paint from 1991, Mantis style from Richard Cunningham, Shimano BB included (probably Deore XT but not sure), unfortunately head seat post and head set are cracked as usual in this model bike as pictured.
This frame is only for shown or it needs to be repaired.

Measures:
seat post C-T: about 46 cm
top tube C-C: about 58 cm

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120 Euros SOLD
Price is in Euros without shipping costs, please contact me direct for an actual delivery quote to your country.
Yes paypal (gift/friend please or add 6%).
For dibs, pics or more details ask me please, replay here then pm me.

Thanks


Last edited by valleyman on Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 pm 
retrobike rider
retrobike rider
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Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:04 pm
Posts: 2218
Location: A wretched hive of scum and villainy...
Hi VM,

Can I have the Alien frame, please?
Repair is not a problem for me.
PM incoming.

All the best,


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:00 am 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 9:00 pm
Posts: 1193
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
:( :facepalm:
Argh! Missed another one!
I need to wake up earlier in the day!
Not to jinx anything, but can I have dibs if the sale falls thru?


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:49 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:04 pm
Posts: 42
Nice one danson, this is one of my favorites. The Mantis for the poor (or Nishiki for the rich).
Any chance of a repair/build thread?


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:46 am 
retrobike rider
retrobike rider
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Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:04 pm
Posts: 2218
Location: A wretched hive of scum and villainy...
Yes, a bit like Incorrigible, I have tracked down a few of these, (along with their cousins from Mantis) but all with cracks.

I have carried out quite a few repairs and tube replacements on old 7000 series aluminium frames over the last few years (mostly Pace and Manitou, but also Marin and Kona), so I'm confident that I can do a decent job of this Alien.

I'll start a thread when it arrives, but I am more interested in it being a rider than a catalogue-correct build, so I hope the purists won't mind.

Does Gil or anyone else have the decal files, as the paint will have to go?

All the best,


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:43 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:04 pm
Posts: 42
In hindsight probably not the best idea to use these alloys- but I remember the marketing efforts at the time. 7000 - must be better than 6000, eh?

Looking forward to an eventual resurrection thread!


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:18 pm 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:04 pm
Posts: 2218
Location: A wretched hive of scum and villainy...
I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the 7000 series materials used in bike frames, 7005 and 7020 generally. Plenty of solid reliable 7000 series frames out there, old and new.

The alloy series number just indicates the main alloying elements. 2000 series = copper, 3000 = silicon, 4000 = manganese, 5000 =magnesium, 6000 = silicon + magnesium, 7000 = zinc + magnesium, 8000= iron. Each series has low to high grade alloys included, with numbering within each series in no particular order.

If the Manitous which I have seen are anything to go by, it's a combination of poor large grained material, possibly even extruded billet, for the headtubes that starts the problems. Added to which, their headtubes seem to have been reamed out 0.15mm undersized from the factory, with a sharp square internal corner on the bore, rather than the chamfer shown on the standard specs. They want to burst as soon as they see a porky Chris King headset coming their way!

IIRC some of the better framebuilding tool companies such as Cobra and Silva from Italy used to supply their reamers in 2 different sizes, one for steel and Ti, the other, slightly larger, for aluminium. Aluminium has a hard time coping with the bursting force of a press fit cup...

Attachment:
Traditional HT.JPG
Traditional HT.JPG [ 41.21 KiB | Viewed 190 times ]


IMO one of the main drivers behind the move to the tapered bearing integrated headsets in the early 2000s. They may have had other inherent problems, but the negligible bursting force produced is exerted diagonally on a very thick walled tube section, protected well up inside the head tube away from the tube end.

Attachment:
Integrated HT.JPG
Integrated HT.JPG [ 51.58 KiB | Viewed 190 times ]


I suspect the Nishiki seat tube problem is down to an already thin walled seat tube distorting forwards and inwards around the TT weld like this:

Attachment:
800-weld-compensation-2_orig.jpg
800-weld-compensation-2_orig.jpg [ 45.75 KiB | Viewed 176 times ]

The resulting internal bulge is then reamed out for the seatpost fit, thinning the tube wall even more at the weakest area just above the weldment...We'll see when I get my hands on it.

All the best,


Last edited by danson67 on Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:06 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:32 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:29 pm
Posts: 3908
Location: peak district
8) love this thread already, great info, thanks.

Look forward to seeing you rescue this one :)

mark


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:05 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:04 pm
Posts: 42
Yes, excellent explanation, thanks a lot! I also noticed inconsistent reaming of head/seat tubes, combined with manufacturing spread for headsets/seatposts, where of 2 identical headsets/seatposts only one would fit a specific frame (perfectly). I´m looking at you Suntour/Kalloy!

Who would have thought I´d learn something today :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:37 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 9:00 pm
Posts: 1193
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
danson67 wrote:
Yes, a bit like Incorrigible, I have tracked down a few of these, (along with their cousins from Mantis) but all with cracks.

I have carried out quite a few repairs and tube replacements on old 7000 series aluminium frames over the last few years (mostly Pace and Manitou, but also Marin and Kona), so I'm confident that I can do a decent job of this Alien.

I'll start a thread when it arrives, but I am more interested in it being a rider than a catalogue-correct build, so I hope the purists won't mind.

Does Gil or anyone else have the decal files, as the paint will have to go?

All the best,
Coincidentally, I was going to PM you specifically about the decals and the paint, but then I thought your accompanying pics told me all I needed to know.

I'm guessing that gil_m can match the decal color from the pics, and there are already decals available for the red ACX, so it's just a matter of re-coloring the existing decal images to match the pics.

As for the paint, I had heard from a couple of sources that (they remember) the paint was more than simply gloss black - that there were fine particles of pearl or metallic, in pink, green, and other colors - so that the paint appeared black from a distance, but upon close inspection, especially in sunlight, it had sparkly or glowing highlights, much like the glowing purple highlights in the original 1989 Alien. From these pics, however, it seems to be a gloss jet black color.

Does anyone have a catalog or a magazine ad (or anything) from 1991 that depicts a black ACX? If so, I'd sure like to see it posted here.

I seem to find a red (1990) ACX for sale about once per year, but the black ones (1991) seem to be as rare as hen's teeth. That said, I bought a red one (cracked, of course) from a local who said he worked in a bike shop BITD, and that the red ones didn't sell too well because people thought they looked too gaudy (he said they sold 3), but people really liked the black ACX (he said they sold about 20 of them). If that's the case, then where are all the black ones? The fact that I almost NEVER see them makes me think that SOME people are hoarding collectible bikes (uhhh......not that I would know anything about that practice, of course :oops: ).

Looking forward to seeing this build!


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