REAR SHOCK: COIL/AIR?
- Thread starter srands
- Start date
srands
Retro Guru
HARDTAIL better then RIGID, FULL SUS better then HARDTAIL
Guess FULL SUS MTB riders think this is criticism of their bikes, IT ISN'T.
I believe:
~ HARDTAIL better then RIGID
~ FULL SUS better then HARDTAIL
Well I won't go into the imaginary world of CUSTOM BIKE FULL SUSPENSION DESIGN, we'll just say MTB FULL SUS forte is the domain of MTB MANUFACTURERS:
But with well designed and great to ride uphill/downhill FULL SUSPENSION MTB's the following can be concluded:
PROs (ADVANTAGES):
~ LESS VIBRATION/SHOCK
~ LESS FATIGUE (AS LESS SHOCK/VIBRATION GIVEN TO THE RIDER)
~ HIGHER TYRE PRESSURES (AS SHOCKS DOES THE ABSORBTION)
~ LESS PINCH PUNCTURES as HIGHER TYRE PRESSURES
CONs (DISADVANTAGES):
~ MORE FLEX/BOB then a HARDTAIL (PERHAPS SOME WASTED ENERGY excerted by the RIDER)
~ FULL SUS MTB maybe heavier then HARDTAIL MTB
~ QUALITY FULL SUS MTB's are EXPENSIVE (NO SUCH THING AS A BARGAIN QUALITY FULL SUS AS MOST £1000+, WHEREAS QUALITY HARDTAIL MTB's START £350+).
Guess FULL SUS MTB riders think this is criticism of their bikes, IT ISN'T.
I believe:
~ HARDTAIL better then RIGID
~ FULL SUS better then HARDTAIL
Well I won't go into the imaginary world of CUSTOM BIKE FULL SUSPENSION DESIGN, we'll just say MTB FULL SUS forte is the domain of MTB MANUFACTURERS:
But with well designed and great to ride uphill/downhill FULL SUSPENSION MTB's the following can be concluded:
PROs (ADVANTAGES):
~ LESS VIBRATION/SHOCK
~ LESS FATIGUE (AS LESS SHOCK/VIBRATION GIVEN TO THE RIDER)
~ HIGHER TYRE PRESSURES (AS SHOCKS DOES THE ABSORBTION)
~ LESS PINCH PUNCTURES as HIGHER TYRE PRESSURES
CONs (DISADVANTAGES):
~ MORE FLEX/BOB then a HARDTAIL (PERHAPS SOME WASTED ENERGY excerted by the RIDER)
~ FULL SUS MTB maybe heavier then HARDTAIL MTB
~ QUALITY FULL SUS MTB's are EXPENSIVE (NO SUCH THING AS A BARGAIN QUALITY FULL SUS AS MOST £1000+, WHEREAS QUALITY HARDTAIL MTB's START £350+).
srands
Retro Guru
Re: HARDTAIL better then RIGID, FULL SUS better then HARDTAI
Well we all can be quite prudent to getting a full shimano groupset, or a decent groupset, the lightest frame, the lighest suspension fork, but these days if you will settle for less then full XTR, XT, SLX then DEORE or less equipped MTBs with online discounts, seasonal sales (Upto 5% to 30% off), or negotiating with local bike shops a few quality examples that UK RRP is £450, or less:
GARY FISHER WAHOO DISK RRP £450
(The spec on this is very good, I wouldn't change anything on this, apart putting essential accessories)
GT AVALANCHE DISK 2011 sale price £360
(Quality MTB frame & fork with some budget parts, that will last for years)
CARRERA KRAKEN sale price £350
GARY FISHER TARPON RRP £325
CARRERA VULCAN web price £200
Since the majority of cyclists aren't interested in:
~ QUALITY FULL SUSPENSION MTB's,
~ FULL SUSPENSION FRAMES and
~ LIGHTER FRONT SUSPENSION FORKS
~ HYDRAULIC DISK BRAKES
It's a simple case (Economies of scale) that these are exaggerated prices for people prepared to pay alot more. Alot of these prices are unrealistically high, but for serious MTB's getting the lightest part, the highest spec part (etc), means alot to them, so they're prepared to pay a high price.
Also to build a bike if bought all parts separately who cost significantly more, so most parts bought afterwards have a much much larger profit margin then a complete MTB, whatever it is (Well apart from the cheapest Apollo, Trax, Gemini).
If you've ever worked in a bike shop, customers who are unfamiliar with bikes, are unaware of groupset levels, and feel unobligated to pay for a bike with a 'better quality groupset', hence we have groupsets with a different number of gears (21, 24, 27, 30).
Andy R":6xekpmhs said:
Well we all can be quite prudent to getting a full shimano groupset, or a decent groupset, the lightest frame, the lighest suspension fork, but these days if you will settle for less then full XTR, XT, SLX then DEORE or less equipped MTBs with online discounts, seasonal sales (Upto 5% to 30% off), or negotiating with local bike shops a few quality examples that UK RRP is £450, or less:
GARY FISHER WAHOO DISK RRP £450
(The spec on this is very good, I wouldn't change anything on this, apart putting essential accessories)
GT AVALANCHE DISK 2011 sale price £360
(Quality MTB frame & fork with some budget parts, that will last for years)
CARRERA KRAKEN sale price £350
GARY FISHER TARPON RRP £325
CARRERA VULCAN web price £200
Since the majority of cyclists aren't interested in:
~ QUALITY FULL SUSPENSION MTB's,
~ FULL SUSPENSION FRAMES and
~ LIGHTER FRONT SUSPENSION FORKS
~ HYDRAULIC DISK BRAKES
It's a simple case (Economies of scale) that these are exaggerated prices for people prepared to pay alot more. Alot of these prices are unrealistically high, but for serious MTB's getting the lightest part, the highest spec part (etc), means alot to them, so they're prepared to pay a high price.
Also to build a bike if bought all parts separately who cost significantly more, so most parts bought afterwards have a much much larger profit margin then a complete MTB, whatever it is (Well apart from the cheapest Apollo, Trax, Gemini).
If you've ever worked in a bike shop, customers who are unfamiliar with bikes, are unaware of groupset levels, and feel unobligated to pay for a bike with a 'better quality groupset', hence we have groupsets with a different number of gears (21, 24, 27, 30).
JamesM
Senior Retro Guru
I had this exact same problem with my rear airshock. Even when I pumped it up to 500 psi (way beyond the manufactures recommended maximum) it was still to soft. I solved the problem by filling it up with lemonade. Liquids take massive pressures, like in a blackhole, before they compress but the bubbles in lemonade allow for some compression overcoming the requirement for said blackhole. The other advantage is the rougher the ground the harder the shock gets as the pressure goes up, just like when you shake up a fizzy drink. Maintenance however is a little more regular than with a normal air shock as the lemonade goes flat after about a month and so need replacing. I offset this extra maintainace though by drinking the lemonade at the end of the ride and refilling at the begining of the next one. This saves me from making up an extra post ride drink to leave in my car.
Also if you dont like lemonade you could try Fanta or Tango or any fizzy drink really.
Also if you dont like lemonade you could try Fanta or Tango or any fizzy drink really.
JamesM
Senior Retro Guru
Re: HARDTAIL better then RIGID, FULL SUS better then HARDTAI
You forgot roads. From good to bad it goes rigid, hardtail, full sus, smooth road. They go all over too, through the countryside, up and down hills, along next to fields and rivers and streams. They have all the pro's you've listed and none of the cons.
Through this voyage of discovery I think we can conclude that deep down you are actually a roadie and you need to get a roadbike.
srands":4t42aep8 said:
You forgot roads. From good to bad it goes rigid, hardtail, full sus, smooth road. They go all over too, through the countryside, up and down hills, along next to fields and rivers and streams. They have all the pro's you've listed and none of the cons.
srands":4t42aep8 said:
Through this voyage of discovery I think we can conclude that deep down you are actually a roadie and you need to get a roadbike.
srands
Retro Guru
Right.......
KEEN CYCLISTS, LOOKING TO PURCHASE FULL SUSPENSION:
I appreciate what you are saying, that people who read this forum are the sort to be already interested enough in bikes, to know the previous mentioned, as just general knowledge, and reach their own conclusion on "WHAT BIKE" to choose.
NOT KEEN CYCLISTS, LOOKING TO PURCHASE FULL SUSPENSION:
Whereas people who aren't that interested in MTBs, but they are considering buying a quality full sus MTB, they aren't likely to read/research (Magazines/Web site searches/MTB forum searches) about features and different models, they're likely to just get a full sus MTB they like the look of in a shop (This one).
I also appreciate what you're implying about the molecules of the world, that every element is to be used as originally intended, how onerous of you.
Well instead of using a car to get to my cycling destination, I cycle on road to my cycling destination, then ride off road, to generalise of course.
Also I realise that bridleways have many gates to prevent motocrossers, mind you I haven't ridden many teenage brides naked across some decents yet, but I think you take too many things literally......
Anyway I must go, I have to wind up my vehicle as am going on carriage way 2mrw, as much as I'd enjoy to exchange pointless forum topics mgs into the early hours.
RETRO BIKE, hmm aka most bikes over a decade (10 years, circa 2001 ago were rubbish, especially the components), these days MTB's are far better. But manufacturers do this on purpose to persuade us to upgrade (Buy better spec components or newer version components), to something better! Guess that they (Shimano, MTB Makers, etc) have a nice plan, for over a century (100 years).
KEEN CYCLISTS, LOOKING TO PURCHASE FULL SUSPENSION:
I appreciate what you are saying, that people who read this forum are the sort to be already interested enough in bikes, to know the previous mentioned, as just general knowledge, and reach their own conclusion on "WHAT BIKE" to choose.
NOT KEEN CYCLISTS, LOOKING TO PURCHASE FULL SUSPENSION:
Whereas people who aren't that interested in MTBs, but they are considering buying a quality full sus MTB, they aren't likely to read/research (Magazines/Web site searches/MTB forum searches) about features and different models, they're likely to just get a full sus MTB they like the look of in a shop (This one).
I also appreciate what you're implying about the molecules of the world, that every element is to be used as originally intended, how onerous of you.
Well instead of using a car to get to my cycling destination, I cycle on road to my cycling destination, then ride off road, to generalise of course.
Also I realise that bridleways have many gates to prevent motocrossers, mind you I haven't ridden many teenage brides naked across some decents yet, but I think you take too many things literally......
Anyway I must go, I have to wind up my vehicle as am going on carriage way 2mrw, as much as I'd enjoy to exchange pointless forum topics mgs into the early hours.
RETRO BIKE, hmm aka most bikes over a decade (10 years, circa 2001 ago were rubbish, especially the components), these days MTB's are far better. But manufacturers do this on purpose to persuade us to upgrade (Buy better spec components or newer version components), to something better! Guess that they (Shimano, MTB Makers, etc) have a nice plan, for over a century (100 years).
Re: Right.......
Do you have any idea what this forum is about??
And your statement that fully rigid isn't as good as front suspension, which isn't as good as suspension. It all depends on what you enjoy riding and what you like. I personally like riding fully rigid, but i do have front suspension on some bikes. I am happying pottering along at a lower speed and picking my lines than hammering along letting the suspension do the work. Don't get me wrong, there are some amazing full suspension bikes out there, but it's all about what you want to do and what you enjoy riding.
Out of interest, whats your opinion on singlespeed??
srands":2dy0xx9c said:
Do you have any idea what this forum is about??
And your statement that fully rigid isn't as good as front suspension, which isn't as good as suspension. It all depends on what you enjoy riding and what you like. I personally like riding fully rigid, but i do have front suspension on some bikes. I am happying pottering along at a lower speed and picking my lines than hammering along letting the suspension do the work. Don't get me wrong, there are some amazing full suspension bikes out there, but it's all about what you want to do and what you enjoy riding.
Out of interest, whats your opinion on singlespeed??
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