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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:57 pm 
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Russell wrote:
Just playing devils advocate here


Oooookkkkk, satan-boy.

There are certain norms in society and its subcultures. Cycling has its own way of doing things and I would contend that bringing a bicycle into a shop is one of them. No, I didn't obtain permission, but I didn't ask the owner if I could enter his shop. "But that's the point of a shop!" you say. Ok, fine.

How dare I be so audacious to bring my fanny pack (YES, a FANNY pack) into the shop, didn't ask, did I? What about shoes. Did he have a sign that says "Shoes be cool?" Nope, he didn't. House keys? Nope. Watch? No siree. Bandaid on my elbow? ditto. There are none of those things of mine that I asked if it was ok to bring onto their private property. So either you're accepting that there are certain accepted norms or you'd be going into every shop naked unless you ask first and even then, you'd probably better be safe and ask first if you can enter. But don't knock or ring a bell to get them to answer the door, they didn't give permission for you to touch it (and I've never seen a doorbell that said, "Hey, you can ring this without asking." However you first have to deal with crossing that parking lot, which is indeed private property.

So, in the cycling world, the norm and accepted ways are to be able to bring it into the shop. Hundreds of shops I've been in and only one had a problem with my bike being inside and I suspect the experience of others on this forum is similar. Sounds like an accepted practice in the cycling subculture.

So given that we're all into respecting private property, what gives him the right to touch my property? If he wanted me to leave, he should have told me to do so (not ask, ask I could then tell him to get stuffed).

So there you go Beelzebub. If they had a Angel emoticon...I'd use it.

Pen-Goo-Wee-Nee

P.S. post-edit but WTF, just noticed the word n-a-k-e-d gets a star. You Brits really need to stop using underwear that is too sizes too small. :D *'ing out 'naked' UnF***ing believable.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:14 pm 
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Russell wrote:


And how much respect are you showing for their property by wheeling your bike in without asking if its ok first?

Just playing devils advocate here :twisted:


Does any rational person really think it disrespectful to bring a bike into a shop? I once had a heated debate with a supermarket security guard about bringing my bike into the store. He claimed the bike was a risk to others but when I pointed out that it was, in fact, a fraction of the weight of a loaded shopping trolley, significantly smaller in proportion and therefore far easier to control thus representing very little risk in comparison, he threatened to have me arrested. I had gone to pick up a prescription that was pre-prepared.

Play devil's advocate if you will, but I do not think it remotely disrespectful to take my bike into certain shops. I find it extremely disrespectful to act in the manner displayed by the shop owner/worker that removed Pinguwin's bike and mindless drones who either refuse to or simply cannot see sense or reason.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:14 pm 
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Location: Tredavoe, Cornwall
When i lived in Manchester i would put my bike over my shoulder and go in all the shops.

Used to get some funny looks waiting in line for half a pound of cheese or whatever.But at least my bike didnt get nicked.

the funny thing was i cant remember anybody saying anything to me!

They may have thought i had a gun, like most Mancs!!

Al.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:15 pm 
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Location: No brakes? Way to commit soldier.
Why so riled? My post wasn't linked to or in answer to anything that you personally had written. I wasn't saying that the guy who moved your bike was right or wrong, neither was I questioning cyclings 'sub-culture', heaven forbid that I should write something that contradicts cycling tradition.

I was amused by the juxtaposition that somebody whos bike is moved considers the store owner disrespectful, and that the store owner probably considered the owner of the bike disrespectful in leaving it there in the first place.

Not sure that getting naked in shops is a good idea by the way.

Why is naked 'starred out' but wanker is fine?


Last edited by Russell on Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:23 pm 
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Location: No brakes? Way to commit soldier.
Corduroyboy wrote:
I once had a heated debate with a supermarket security guard about bringing my bike into the store. He claimed the bike was a risk to others but when I pointed out that it was, in fact, a fraction of the weight of a loaded shopping trolley, significantly smaller in proportion and therefore far easier to control thus representing very little risk in comparison, he threatened to have me arrested. I had gone to pick up a prescription that was pre-prepared.


If somebody 'had' fallen over your bike and injured themselves whilst the bike was on that stores property, the store would have been liable for damages, not you. It may not be rational, it may be that the security guard 'has' to be a 'mindles drone', it may be bloody stupid but unfortunately that is the culture that we live in today, a culture that demands that 'somebody' is liable for every accident and that somebody must pay. It's not the stores fault, or the security guards fault, they're just covering their asses, and why shouldn't they? Next time you think that somebody is acting like a mindless drone, spend two minutes to think about why.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:23 pm 
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Russell wrote:
Why so riled?


I think you just pressed the 'bike in shop' button, that's all - gets me riled every time! I dare say Pinguwin is similar. :P
Plus, your post implies* that it is OK for the shop owner to remove the bike and place it at great risk of theft.


*Might be an inferrence on my part. :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:30 pm 
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Russell wrote:
Why so riled?


Nah, wasn't riled at all. Maybe I didn't make that clear enough, just in a feisty mood. No offense take in the slightest as you made it clear you were being a devil's advocate and I was responding in kind.

I have no problem with the owner moving my bike to the back of the shop if he thought it was in the way. If I was being disrespectful then he should have told me to leave, but to put an unsecured bike worth several thousand dollars and in 1990 was *extremely* difficult to replace out on a very busy street, that's asinine.

Like Al, if I go to a convenience store (where it's not the norm) I will ask if I can park it inside while I quickly pick up some milk and have even had people offer to put it in the back room. I was on a recent night ride and the guy working in the kwik-e-mart liked my bike with giraffe spots on it. We struck up a conversation for 30 minutes (slow night at the shop). Very interesting guy, lived in half dozen countries with lots of cool stories.

'Guin

P.S. Just realized that once again in 2007, this bike is once again, *extremely* difficult to replace :D


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:57 pm 
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Location: Tredavoe, Cornwall
Its funny Russell i drove into Quick Fit for some new tyres this afternoon, but the bloke behind the counter told me to remove my car from his garage. But on the way out would i leave my wallet on the counter so he could help himself!

ok i said, would you like to pull my pants down and give me a spanking as well. Also could you please let me know when you have finished taking the piss out of me because i would like to buy some tyres please sir.

ps. that didnt really happen.

Cheers,Al .


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:10 pm 
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Location: Atherton, Manchester
Cant see whats wrong with using a lock and leaving it outside, or if its that important leave the bike at home and take the bus with all the weirdos. quite simple really :)


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:29 pm 
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exbiker wrote:
Cant see whats wrong with using a lock and leaving it outside


Never have. Never will.


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