Never use Paypal Gift!!!

brocklanders023

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Hi all. As much as I'm sure most of you will be aware YOU MUST NOT USE PAYPAL GIFT FOR ANY TRANSACTION, EVEN AS A SELLER!!!!!

I have been the victim of fraud and it's cost me £835. I was the seller of the bike and thought the risk in using Gift, Friends and Family, or whatever it's called was with the buyer as you didn't have protection. This is not the case, the seller is just as much at risk.

My tale is that I decided to sell my modern Orange P7 as I don't have the time to use both my modern bikes so thought the funds would be better used elsewhere. I had recently joined the Orange Riders group on Facebook so decided to try it there first for ease. I was contacted by someone calling themselves Craig who was asking for a friend (Paul). Long story short, we agreed a deal and the 'friend' paid me so I sent the bike to the address given.
A few days later I was contacted by someone called Paul asking where their bike was. Long/short again, Craig had set up a spoof ad which Paul had responded to. Paul agreed to buy the spoof bike at which point Craig gave him MY PP details. Paul paid me, I sent the bike to Craig, so Paul got no bike.

Paul then contacted his bank provided evidence of the fraud so they refunded him. They then got the money back off PP who took the money back off me. So Craig got the bike, Paul got refunded and I got shafted. :evil: :evil: :evil:

I didn't ask for payment by Gift but Craig offered to pay that way and I didn't disagree as I thought the risk was with him. All part of the plot it seems.

The bike has been up on ebay, using the pictures I took, and has also been posted all over Facebook. I have screen shots of every conversation and every picture along with the full email exchange between Paul and myself (including his screen shots of his conversations).

I contacted ebay when it was listed and they did nothing. I have contacted the Police who directed me to their Action Fraud people who decide if they will progress anything. I gave a full account of what had happened the first time I rang which I was told was being written up in a report. I was on the phone for a good hour or more. I rang back today with more information only to find that the first person I had spoken to hadn't actually bothered to write the report, even though they told me they were typing it as we spoke. You can guess how much faith I have that they will actually do anything about it, even though I had done their job for them and could literally lead them to where my, and plenty of other (probably) stolen bikes were!!! The bike seems to have vanished now so we've missed that boat. :facepalm: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

I feel utterly helpless and utterly let down by the people who are meant to catch criminals. As my friend said today, if you walked in to a bank and stole £835 they'd be all over you but the Police seem to be completely behind the curve with online theft and ill equipped to do anything about it.
I've had people say I should go to the address I sent it to but it won't be there. If it pops up again I will go to see it if possible but the scammers are watching me and watching forums so run a mile if they think I am involved. I'd love to go round with a group of mates and some cricket bats but that's probably a bad idea.

That's it for me now with collecting bikes, I have completely lost interest and have no desire to go in to the garage and tinker. When people can take things you work hard for without batting an eyelash it spoils the fun for me. I'm having to sell a decent chunk of my bike stuff just to cover the cost of what was stolen so look out for sale ads. It will not be getting replaced.

Anyway, rant over. Just stay safe out there, trust no one (this mob were very, very convincing) and whatever you do DON'T USE PAYPAL F***ING GIFT!! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
 

Trebz

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Terrible story mate. I feel for you. I can't do anything to help but take it easy, or at least try.
 

Nob

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The big clue of a scam was in the ‘my friend’ which should have raised a red flag straight away.....
 

brocklanders023

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Re:

Not really. The story went his mate wasn't on FB and had some money to buy a bike. The scammer was trying to steer him in the direction of second had for value and Orange 'cos we were on a Orange fans page. There really wasn't anything out of the ordinary compared to plenty of sales I've been involved with over the years.
 

mk one

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Sorry to hear this.

Unfortunatly its a very common scam, a topic waa raised about the same recently on here regarding phones.

As above, the fact you dealt with a friend and not the buyer should raise concern, plenty of options for direct contact outside FB!! Also sending to a different address is kinda silly. Anyway, dont want to keep going on and adding to your misery, i hope you can resolve this.

I think the point here is to use common sense when dealing with selling, especially with strangers, not so much not to use F+F as thats fine if used correctly.

Mark
 

MatBH5

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Sorry to hear this - I hope you get your bike enthusiasm back soon.
If I can help with any Orange-related retro karma let me know.

If it’s any consolation, compared to some crimes, no one was physically hurt.
 

kalex

Retro Guru
mkone":8ft531wl said:
Sorry to hear this.

Unfortunatly its a very common scam, a topic waa raised about the same recently on here regarding phones.

As above, the fact you dealt with a friend and not the buyer should raise concern, plenty of options for direct contact outside FB!! Also sending to a different address is kinda silly. Anyway, dont want to keep going on and adding to your misery, i hope you can resolve this.

I think the point here is to use common sense when dealing with selling, especially with strangers, not so much not to use F+F as thats fine if used correctly.

Mark

With regards posting to a different address is that with PP gift you don't actually get a confirmed postal address. You don't even get any kind of postage destination just notification that someone has sent you funds.
 

mk one

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kalex":36iyyw3r said:
With regards posting to a different address is that with PP gift you don't actually get a confirmed postal address. You don't even get any kind of postage destination just notification that someone has sent you funds.

obviously as you are not buying/selling goods so no need for a delivery address :)
 

RickTheUncivil

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man, thats a harsh way to learn a lesson.

As others have said, I think F&F payments have their place but I put a limit eg on the value I will accept / send just in case. Not sure how much more protection a goods payment gives, I gather that paypal tend to look after the seller more than the buyer so perhaps not all bad in this sort of situation but still, not sure its any guarantee of no loss in such a case.
 

mk one

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There are protections but they are based around buying/selling goods and not cash exchanges.

You can deal with the above type situation by going through other means. The buyer has an account, both pp and bank, he has an address, there is proof of delivery to his address, and evidence of deception.

The banks and others are starting to act as it has been going on for many years now with little or no action against the fraudsters. New laws were meant to be coming in to deal with this. Its so easy to say you didnt recieve the item, recieving an item doesnt prove you recieved the item.

As paypal/ebay and others say, if you are selling large value items cash is the only safe way to make the transaction, assuming you know how to identify fake notes that is :)
 

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