Claud Butler frame number identification

afflier

Retro Newbie
I have two CB's, actually both of which I am selling on Ebay.

Although the newer of the two Frame Number 19555 is almost certainly an Electric Blue Flamboyant1963 Torino I am struggling with the older one.

The Frame number is 511 over 608. Following posts in this forum, that leads me to think it could be
Year 1951 - Month 1 (January) - Bike number 608 - but this seems extremely unlikely that 608 frames had been made in January!
Year 1945 - Month 11 (November) - Bike number 608 - unlikely as features of bike ae later developments
Year 1955 - Month 11 (November) - Bike number 608 - much more likely .....

Its in Black with a Claud Butler 'signature' in gold on the down tube
By the shape (comparing to catalogues) looks like World Championship lugs
Wrap over seat stay tops
Its also got chromium rear ends

I've pored over the various catalogues but Im struggling to see which model it is!
 

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Peachy!

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@afflier I’m not sure if I’ve read your reasoning correctly, but Clauds monthly production seams to have fluctuations from 450 to 650 a month during the 50’s so I’m not sure why you don’t think it’s from January 1951?
By November of any year in the 50’s the frame count is in the 4 or 5 thousands
As for the ID, I have a hunch but just need to check a few details.
It would help if you clicked on the “edit” option on your post and insert the Photos as full images.
Ps I’ve sent you a PM about the eBay listing as I might be interested in buying this.
 
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Peachy!

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I’ve double checked and yes my gut was correct. It’s a Massed Start from 19514D31B4C6-2288-4958-8B47-8B24B0371CB1.pngFE284E0F-7E1E-4171-8D94-1045929F9060.jpeg
 
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Julians

Retro Newbie
Hi, excellent thread. This was my dad's bike, he bought it second hand as a teenager in the 1950s. I've been meaning to restore it in some way for the past 30 years, but I just spray oil on it occasionally. Clearly it began life as a track bike, The frame number might suggest it was made in February 1953, Does the H mean anything?
The gears confuse things, Cyclo Benelux derailleur. I think the bracket and gears may have been added by the bike shop he bought it from in Coventry. And the front forks, the shape of the top seems a bit different from most 1950s, again could have been changed in a refurb. Interesting handlebar shape.
Or could it be something older ?
 

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dwscrimshaw

Retro Guru
Not sure who the H is, normally frame builder initial, Feb 1953. Only three sprints listed and only one lungless so looks like the "Road Track". The previous year it was listed with the other sprints and had a 1 1/8" dia top tube rather than std. 1". For 1953 looks like its back to std 1", but worth checking, and yes the gears have been added at some point.
 

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Julians

Retro Newbie
Not sure who the H is, normally frame builder initial, Feb 1953. Only three sprints listed and only one lungless so looks like the "Road Track". The previous year it was listed with the other sprints and had a 1 1/8" dia top tube rather than std. 1". For 1953 looks like its back to std 1", but worth checking, and yes the gears have been added at some point.
Thanks, that all sounds about right. Here's a couple of pics to show the rear hub, on one side sprocket cluster for the gears and on the other side a fixed cog. So if you flip the wheel round you get a fixie. Also many more spokes in the rear wheel than the front.
 

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Peachy!

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Very nice, with lots of sought after period correct kit as well. I wouldn’t say the fork crown is particularly wrong, although more common on older bikes (late 40’s). When you get around to restoring it, please check the number on the fork steerer to see if it matches.
 
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