Vintage 'Winchester' roadbike.

SteveWinchester said:

Its clearly hand 'brazed' with cable eyes individually brazed on etc and the lugging all brazed in also. It must have taken quite some time to construct in such a manner without welding etc. I've done brazing myself and it's very time consuming and quite a skill.

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All the old frames were made by brazing - remember welding didn't become common for ANYTHING until the 1950s. My father in law worked in a bike factory in the 1960s: frames were brazed in one go fully assembled in a brazing hearth, not each joint brazed individually with a gas torch like today.

hamster said:

All the old frames were made by brazing - remember welding didn't become common for ANYTHING until the 1950s. My father in law worked in a bike factory in the 1960s: frames were brazed in one go fully assembled in a brazing hearth, not each joint brazed individually with a gas torch like today.

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Wow ! I never knew that! It makes total sense, as I was looking at the brazing pattern and it didn't look rite ! I.e if you did it by hand it wouldn't look like my frame does. So putting it in an oven of sorts pre prepared with braze makes total sense
I found out the frames origin today and basically it's a Windsor Mexico based around the Carrera model. Now I've just gotta find a colour match and I'm still very curious who Winchester are or were ?
Thanks Hamster for your input, it all helps me understand and I'm learning fast with everyone's experience

Obviously hearth-brazing couldn't achieve the high standards of individual torch brazing, not least in frame alignment. Frames would be cold-set afterwards. Of course, as they were made of cheaper and less-stiff steel, this wasn't so difficult.

Getting old? I'm nearly 88. You have later copies in the style of Nervex pro lugs.
If you can do some pics of the front and rear fork ends I will tell you whether its Italian inspired.
Clearly a mid range bike, perhaps they just had to use what they could get for the frames.
Any brazed lugged frame will look similar under the paint. There might be more signs of brazing flowed away from the lugs in a cheap one.
Keith

A bit of info about Windsor on this thread: https://www.retrobike.co.uk/threads/1969-cinelli-sc-new-pictures.252182/
They made some peloton-standard machines in the '70s. (The real peloton, with a small p- not those stationary weirdos on the TV ads.) Let's face it... if you lost the race, it wasn't because you were riding a Windsor instead of a Cinelli.
.. but as Keith says, yours is not an example of their top model, and chances are the chap from Cinelli didn't have a personal hand in its construction. Doesn't mean it is bad. Check the seat post diameter to get an idea of what quality of tubing it is made from.

It was superstars and the bloke was Brian jacks, a judo champion. The show used single speed raleigh bikes with a freewheel, not fixed.
Then there was the kevin keegan crash ...

I'm also not sure the sport was at a peak in the 70s. It was a fairly minority sport. Those who cycled for pleasure were seen as a bit eccentric, those who cycled for transport were seen as unable to afford a car

pigman said:

It was superstars and the bloke was Brian jacks, a judo champion. The show used single speed raleigh bikes with a freewheel, not fixed.
Then there was the kevin keegan crash ...

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That's The bloke, I was young at the time.

Here's the Windsor catalogue..

keithglos said:

Getting old? I'm nearly 88. You have later copies in the style of Nervex pro lugs.
If you can do some pics of the front and rear fork ends I will tell you whether its Italian inspired.
Clearly a mid range bike, perhaps they just had to use what they could get for the frames.
Any brazed lugged frame will look similar under the paint. There might be more signs of brazing flowed away from the lugs in a cheap one.
Keith

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Keith, in all respect to you, I don't care if the bike is worth £25 ! I like it ! I just wanted to know what it was and where it came from! That's all! It looks beautiful and I want to carry on riding it! I'm no purist by anymeans!

keithglos said:

Getting old? I'm nearly 88. You have later copies in the style of Nervex pro lugs.
If you can do some pics of the front and rear fork ends I will tell you whether its Italian inspired.
Clearly a mid range bike, perhaps they just had to use what they could get for the frames.
Any brazed lugged frame will look similar under the paint. There might be more signs of brazing flowed away from the lugs in a cheap one.
Keith

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Keith, all respects to you and your knowledge! Really! I don't care if the bike is only worth £25 ! It wasn't about that! I just wanted some info for a restoration, that's all.
Obviously you didn't know anything about the Winchester brand ! That's OK, many didn't! But others came up with Windsor Mexico, and they're rite! All I ever wanted was restoration colours and ancillaries. Now if you could tell me the origin of the 'Winchester' label that would help a lot more than measuring tube diameters and parallels !!!
Your Obviously a bike man, I am not ! Just a novice who has nice bike ( not in your world) who just wants some history to restore it back to the style in the day, thats all !! Although now I'm thinking of doing the unthinkable and painting it in a 'me' style.
Totally unpurist Steve style