Help with Philbrook identifying mark?

[manuelschafer]

Hi there,
So pretty.... QUESTION: did he make the very first of seatbinder integraded fastback seatstays and which model of frames are pictured here in the next few photos as shown below to be precise ?
As history has it Tom R. took this aesthetic detail to early mountainbikes within his young age passion of road racing and framebuilding
just like Bill/Phil.
Thank you everyone and pls accept a detail shot of a Potts (former student of T. Ritchey) who took on the concept aswell.
My intention is to understand better who else perhaps came with such mechanical detail solution originally, if there is a story to tell..

 

[manuelschafer]

Just as appreciation for this fine craftsmans legacy anyway (hence these stunning pics) and anyhow (hoping someone can elude a bit on this slightly off/on topic inquiry )


Perhaps as in the pic with the red frame where his son took the photo back then...
Here the transport gets organised ..

ps
depending on framesize, if someone wants to relocate a brazed lugless frame without fork i would take a medium sized one (that is to say 54 or 56)

 

[Midlife]

That seat stay cluster arrangement is known as italienate, not sure if Philbrook invented it

 

[manuelschafer]

Just as yet another example, we are not talking decorative lugwork only the fact who came up with clean and simple effective binder integrated fastback stays in the first place..

My apology if this cannot be dated back to a single individual framebuilder


Royal H.

kirk frameworks

 

[PhillB]

Just as yet another example, we are not talking decorative lugwork only the fact who came up with clean and simple effective binder integrated fastback stays in the first place..

My apology if this cannot be dated back to a single individual framebuilder

View attachment 1022530
Royal H.
View attachment 1022531
kirk frameworks

Hard to say who made it first.

Cinelli Speciale Corsa 1952

 

[Midlife]

About halfway down this article there are examples of italienate and fastback seat stay arrangements….

https://www.hetchins.org/403.htm

 

[bulgie]

Hard to say who made it first.

I bet it was used in the 1800s.
Here's my 1933 Excelsior (USA):



OK, I know that's not the same thing. No cylindrical pinch binder that the stays attach to.

 

[bulgie]

View attachment 1022300

I think the young man in that picture is Jeff Lyon, an American who built frames for Philbrook. He later moved back to the US where he continued under his own name for some decades, retired now I believe.

Anyway, he used that pic on his website Lyonsport.com, which is defunct now, but here it is from the Wayback Machine:
https://web.archive.org/web/20250523005511/https://lyonsport.com/

 

[PhillB]

Y

I bet it was used in the 1800s.
Here's my 1933 Excelsior (USA):

View attachment 1022913

I have no doubt you are right!

Would love to see the rest of your Excelsior

 

[bulgie]

Would love to see the rest of your Excelsior

OK here ya go. It's no lightweight! I converted it into a proto-mountainbike ("klunker") with derailleurs in '79, but then put it back, not 100% original but close. I kept a non-original front drum brake because it's hilly here, with lots of car traffic.


Also because of the hills, the chainwheel is smaller than stock and the rear sprocket is larger. The original was a "sweetheart", heart-shaped cutouts:


I originally bought it for $10, they guy wanted $15 but I talked him down.
For the whole bike that is, I might have paid more for the replacement chainwheel than for the bike...