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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:52 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:17 am
Posts: 748
Sold a frame about a month ago via eBay. Buyer asked a few questions and we talked about what parts he was going to build it with. Item was posted to confirmed PayPal address via parcelforce tracked. He signed for it and I’ve not heard anything until today where a PayPal dispute has been opened by him saying he never authorised the transaction.

Obviously a scam , but what’s the likely outcome.?

I’ve uploaded tracking info , and screenshots of our chats. Plus his delivery info and signature to PayPal. Don’t fancying losing the £215 it sold for if I’m honest.

Worth contacting the plod as it’s fraud in my eyes?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:23 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:27 pm
Posts: 56
Location: Hertford
Juat to clarify. He claims he didnt "authorise the transaction".....but still logged into his own paypal account to send you the money to buy the frame?

How did the money leave his account if he didnt authorise. What a numpty.

Hopefully paypal sort it out for you.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:32 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:17 am
Posts: 748
Yes he purchased via eBay and paid via PayPal. He also signed for delivery himself. He has lodged it as a unauthorised transaction with his credit card company. After a bit of internet work and a acquaintances help I’ve found his where he works , his wife’s business and lots of other info. It appears the card used is from his wife. Maybe he’s tried the old “no darling I’ve no idea who’s bought a frame on eBay”


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:27 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:26 pm
Posts: 359
Location: Lost now on the country miles
So, in a nutshell, the reason for his dispute is that he stole the money from his wife!

And now he needs to return the money to appease a woman's fury. Oh dear!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:40 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:08 pm
Posts: 2212
Location: East Lothian
I would send messages on both eBay and PayPal stating that you have acted in good faith and it is not your fault that there has been fraudulent use of a credit card and state that to protect your interests that you will be referring the matter to the police and give them 24 hours to withdraw. If not go down the police route reporting a potential fraud.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:51 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:17 am
Posts: 748
Ok the plot thickens.

The person I assumed was the wife is a man. I assumed it was a woman as the name is 99% used as a woman’s name. The person who appears to have used the account is either the son or someone else who has access. So maybe the son used dads PayPal without him knowing.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:55 pm 
Old School GrandMaster | Rider
Old School GrandMaster | Rider
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Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:29 pm
Posts: 5748
Location: peak district
Ok, first off you have no need to worry.

You are not accountable as you sold through ebay and meet the paypal conditions too. As far as both are concerned the item has been bought paid for and recieved, its as simple as that.

Now, if he wants to appeal against any actions then it is down to him, not you, to resolve the issue with Paypal, if they do investigate, it will be the actions at his end regarding illegal use of his account. Nothing to do with you, if any party looks at the sale it has been completed within the ebay/paypal rules so is not in question.

As ebay is automated the appeal has to now be completed, but all they will do is check the item was sold within their conditions and proof of delivery, which for them completes the transaction, and rule if your favour. You could contact Customer Service and explain but there is nothing they can do as it is automated and cant be cancelled. They can however reasure you and do everything they can to aid you. It is best to contact them through Live Chat, if you dont get the option to Live Chat then pick any reason in the list until the Live Chat option appears.

Another thing, do not contact the buyer, no need to, and be polite as all messages and communications are available to ebay and they will check them.

Mark


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:04 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:17 am
Posts: 748
Hi thanks for the response.

I’ve spoken with PayPal and they say it’s with the card issuer to make a decision. I asked if I’m covered under the seller protection and got a non committing answer. I pushed the fact that it’s not my issue if the buyer has been defrauded as I’ve followed the exact steps eBay and PayPal ask.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:19 pm 
Old School GrandMaster | Rider
Old School GrandMaster | Rider
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Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:29 pm
Posts: 5748
Location: peak district
Just noticed you said they opened a case with Paypal.

Well, thats even more straightforward. You are covered under Paypal seller protecion, as long as you meet all their seller requirments, which are pretty standard. In that case all you need to do is provide proof of postage/delivery. If your address is registered and you posted it to the registered address then your covered. Even from unauthorised payments, not just not recieved claims.

Keep an eye on your accounts as sometimes they issue chargebacks, but everything is conected so its easy enough to reverse any.

Mark

Have included text from the Consumers Rights page for you;

PayPal Seller Protection

A buyer might make a claim, for example, with PayPal, if they believe that an item hasn't been received or the payment from their account is unauthorised.

They could open a dispute with the PayPal Resolution Centre, or they might issue a chargeback in order to get their money back.

If the buyer is making a false claim, sellers using PayPal are protected by PayPal Seller Protection and shouldn't lose out - provided that they've satisfied eligibility requirements.
Is your sale eligible?

For your sale to be eligible for protection from disputes and chargebacks with PayPal:

The item must be a physical, tangible good
The transaction should be marked - by PayPal - as ‘eligible’ or ‘partially eligible’ for PayPal Seller Protection on the ‘transaction details’ page, and in your confirmation email. If ‘partially eligible’, you'll be covered only if the buyer claims that the item wasn't received. You can find the 'transaction details' by logging into PayPal, finding the transaction in question and selecting the 'details' link
You must have posted the item to the shipping address on the ‘transaction details' page
The buyer must have paid in a single payment
Your primary residence listed on your PayPal account must be in the UK or Ireland
You must have followed all postage requirements.

Exceptions to PayPal protection

If you deliver an item in person or allow the buyer to collect it, you won't be protected by PayPal if the buyer opens a dispute.

If you've sold a service or a licence for digital content, you won't be protected, either.
Top Tips

To make sure your are protected by PayPal's Seller Protection, always keep proof of postage, and proof of delivery.
Remember, goods delivered or picked up in person, or posted to an address other than that on your 'Transaction Details' page, will not be protected from potentially false claims or chargebacks.

Postage requirements

If a buyer claims for an unauthorised payment, you must have proof of postage to be protected.

If they claim that an item wasn't received, you'll also need proof of delivery.

Proof of postage must be online or physical documentation from the postal company that includes all the following:

A status of 'shipped' (or equivalent) and the date of postage
The recipient’s address, showing at least the city/county or postcode (or international equivalent)
Official acceptance from the shipping company (for example, a postmark, receipt, or online tracking information).

Proof of delivery can be online documentation from a postal company that includes all the following:

A status of 'delivered' (or equivalent) and the date of delivery
The recipient’s address, showing at least the city/county or postcode (or international equivalent).

PayPal time limits

A buyer must open a dispute via the PayPal Resolution centre within 180 days of making the payment. This is an extension of the 45 days which it was previously. Buyers are encouraged to deal directly with sellers to resolve the dispute.

If a resolution can't be found, the buyer can escalate the complaint - but only within 20 days of opening the dispute. Otherwise, PayPal will close the dispute and the buyer won't be eligible for reimbursement.

During the claims process, PayPal may require documentation to support your position, such as proof of postage and delivery.

Once a dispute is escalated, PayPal will - after surveying the evidence - make a decision in favour of the buyer or seller.

If you've followed all the requirements for your sale to be eligible for PayPal Seller Protection, it's unlikely that you'll lose out.
PayPal and chargebacks

A buyer may choose to file a chargeback through their bank. Credit card chargeback rights may be broader than PayPal's terms and conditions - for example, they can be filed more than 45 days after payment and may cover intangible items.

If a buyer has opened a claim with PayPal and they then file a chargeback, PayPal will close their claim and the buyer will have to rely on chargeback rights.
PayPal and Ebay

Buyers paying via PayPal for items bought on Ebay are also protected by Ebay's Money Back Guarantee policy. It can be used for problem Ebay items, such as those not being 'as described' or not received.

Like PayPal, if a buyer files a chargeback with their bank, Ebay's Money Back Guarantee Programme will no longer pursue the claim.

There are differences between the eBay scheme and chargeback with banks, around timeframes and eligibility requirements.

And, again, a buyer can't seek resolution through PayPal and Ebay systems at once.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:33 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:17 am
Posts: 748
Fantastic info. Thanks again

Yes to confirm it’s via PayPal but originating via the card provider as a chargeback.

I’ve provided proof of postage , proof of delivery , tracking info and all within timescales. The buyers address is confirmed on PayPal and also it says I’m elibable for seller protection.

I’ve also messaged eBay to let them know about the situation and a potential dodgy buyer. It can’t be that hard to resolve for PayPal surely but they have said 30 days


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