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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:57 am 
Old School Grand Master

Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:42 am
Posts: 3418
d8mok wrote:
Titanium is always the material I think of when someone says “bike for life”

Where exactly are you looking to find all these broken titanium frames?
There probably aren't actually *that* many cracked Ti frames, it's just when they are sold at that massive premium over other materials, you'd expect almost zero failures. After all, it is a frame for life. So they do get publicised. And in many cases, the price premium and advertising gives the impression that the manufacturers will stand by the claim "frame for life", whether they actually said that or not.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=392228

Also, Ti tubing can be massively variable in quality and grade.
It's also a shit to weld well even the big names have issues. And bikes aren't really well thought out in so much as where the welds need to be and what you are welding to!

So i'd rather describe something like a custom made steel frame as a "frame for life" than a Ti frame.

And it's significantly easier to repair a steel frame than a Ti one. (Hell, it's probably easier and cheaper to repair a CF frame than steel OR titanium!)


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 Post subject: Re: Titanium frames
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:51 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:25 pm
Posts: 2214
Location: It's not easy being a dolphin.
Agree with a lot above. Sadly though, anything that will rust internally and out of view is not a frame for life...

There were a couple of good sites on the web about Ti and design that unfortunately have
disappeared. Essentially, in design terms keep bends, folds, pressings, crimps and holes to a minimum.

Interesting about the VN above. I'm an Airbourne fan (pre VN) and have found the ride is much like steel with
little flex. Probably due to plain gauge Ti. They are no where near as light as my DBR Axis Ti.

A damn right scary Ti uber light experience was on a Swedish / Russian Magmaa (http://magmaa.com/).
Just looking at the spindly skinny Ti forks flex back and forth on gravel roads made you nervous - every ride you
always had a ritual to comfort yourself that if it will fail, it will fail gracefully!


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:06 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:57 am
Posts: 428
Location: St. Louis, MO USA
There are still good deals on titanium to be found. I just picked up this frame last summer for $300. It was new old stock. I was the first to build it. My advice is to set aside some money each month and keep a look out for a deal. You never know when one will pop up. You need to act fast when you find one.
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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:43 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 4:57 pm
Posts: 1960
Lhatch4 wrote:
There are still good deals on titanium to be found. I just picked up this frame last summer for $300. It was new old stock. I was the first to build it. My advice is to set aside some money each month and keep a look out for a deal. You never know when one will pop up. You need to act fast when you find one.
Attachment:
file.jpeg


Sooo what make of frame is that?


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:55 am 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:01 pm
Posts: 5130
There is A LOT that goes into making a great all rounder Ti frame and it all costs, you get what you pay for yada yada. I was obsessed with Ti early on and rode lots of the early ones, inc certain well loved brands but they could be bl00dy scary on desents with speed wobble so you always had to feather the brakes. An overly flexy BB during climbing bugs me too but for general flat riding most Ti frames are perfect. Most of us dont push these bikes that hard anymore so its a moot point.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:22 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:57 am
Posts: 428
Location: St. Louis, MO USA
k-rod wrote:
Lhatch4 wrote:
There are still good deals on titanium to be found. I just picked up this frame last summer for $300. It was new old stock. I was the first to build it. My advice is to set aside some money each month and keep a look out for a deal. You never know when one will pop up. You need to act fast when you find one.
Attachment:
file.jpeg


Sooo what make of frame is that?


It's a TST. They made the DBR Axis TT for diamondback. It's a very similar bike.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:59 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 3:21 pm
Posts: 807
M-Power wrote:
There is A LOT that goes into making a great all rounder Ti frame and it all costs, you get what you pay for yada yada. I was obsessed with Ti early on and rode lots of the early ones, inc certain well loved brands but they could be bl00dy scary on desents with speed wobble so you always had to feather the brakes. An overly flexy BB during climbing bugs me too but for general flat riding most Ti frames are perfect. Most of us dont push these bikes that hard anymore so its a moot point.


BB flex is something I hadn't considered, I am no longer considered lightweight LOL. I usually ride alloy frames and only ever notice flex in poor wheels and overly light suspension forks.

Are titanium frames only really suitable for 8 stone racing whippets?


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:08 pm 
Old School Grand Master

Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:42 am
Posts: 3418
davidj wrote:
Are titanium frames only really suitable for 8 stone racing whippets?
Depends on the frame. If it's a racing whippets frame, it'll be designed for racing whippets.

If it's a hardcore hardtail, it'll be a "little" stiffer.

My pair of racing whippet Ti frames are moderately stiff. But not as stiff as the CF frame that replaced them. (Despite being half a kilo or more heavier!)

(I'm not a whippet either, whilst i don't climb as fast as i used to, i still descend just as fast....... maybe a little faster.)


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 Post subject: Re: Titanium frames
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:10 pm 
Old School Grand Master

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:55 pm
Posts: 9433
Location: New Forest, UK
This is not a question about the material itself - make any frame thin enough (regardless of material) and it will be flexible.
It's just that with Alu a flexible frame will fatigue and fail in no time, whereas steel or Ti will last.

Therefore designers seeking a comfortable frame with an element of 'give' in it chose Ti. However there were a fair few super-stiff Ti frames too. For example TdF TT frames were often Ti (repainted in team and brand colours).

The bike industry went to Alu as a matter of cost reduction compared to steel. These had to be very stiff, and after the fact the they justified it by saying that stiff frames were what we wanted. As a result there were a generation of frames (and still many road bikes) that ride like jackhammers.


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 Post subject: Re: Titanium frames
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:17 pm 
Old School Grand Master

Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:42 am
Posts: 3418
hamster wrote:
whereas steel or Ti will last.
Depending on the weld/braze/join quality.

Poorly welded Ti is little better than aluminium, and there is a lot of badly welded Ti out there (either from when they turned the tubes into a frame or when they rolled and seam welded the tubes.)

Steel, on the other hand, you need to be *really* bad at welding to have a significant effect on durability. (unless you are talking some of the more "antique" and/or fancy steels that needed silver soldering etc.)


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