Please help ID my Steel Saracen frame

Can anyone help me identify this Saracen frame?

It’s steel, has internal cable routing on the top tube, horizontal drop outs, and ‘Saracen’ stamped onto the bridge across the stays if that’s any help.
It has Tange headset cups, which may or may not be original fittings. Not sure of the colour before the white paint job and ‘decals’, I can’t see if there’s a serial number on the BB due to the thickness of the paint.

I’ve looked through the other Saracen threads and cant see any of the other pointers e.g. Saracen stamped on the stays.

It’s not the lightest frame so not likely to be top end, but the welds are quite good.

I have a single speed project in mind for it……

Thanks in advance,

Stu

I have two Saracens. The first is from 1988 and has internal brake cable routing. It is fillet brazed. The second is 1990. Again, it has internal routing for the back brake. It also has the pierced seat tube design.

So I would hazard a guess (probably wrongly) from between those years. Saracen had a habit of doing limited edition runs of previous frame runs.

1992 Sahara (or Sahara Elite)

edit -- possibly not; just noticed the flat/embossed seatstay bridge. Those Saharas have cylindrical bridge drilled for a mudguard mount.

Thanks for your replies, sounds like an early 90's frame whatever it is. I'll dig a bit more around that time, now it's narrowed down a bit.

Cheers, stu

I'd go with a 1991 frame; possibly a Sahara if it's not exactly a lightweight.
Lots of details which are similar to this little runter:



More images here.

drystonepaul looks to be on the money

Runter...... Love it

Thanks guys, a Sahara runter it is then!

DSPaul, thanks for the link. A re-spray back to fluo yellow might be in order Interesting on your link you managed to get away without a tensioner for the singlespeed, 34:18 magic ratio duly noted.

Stu

Could however also be a 1990 frame too....
The 90 and 91 non e-stay frames had similar features like the internal brake cable routing, the non pierced seat tube/top tube and the double eyelet drop-outs on the lower end frames.

What is different is the square section seatstay bridge. My 91 Sahara has a round bridge, while my late 91/early 92 e-stay Kili Racer has a square section bridge.

I suspect then that Saracen were using the square section bridge on frames produced in 1991 and perhaps 1992. They may have been using them in 1990 to but I can't find any photos showing this.

So, still sticking with a 1991 frame, it could well be higher up the range than a Sahara. Could be Tufftrax, Andes or Traverse Hydrotech.
According to the 91 catalogue, the Sahara had 17" chainstays, while the other three mentioned had 16.75" stays. So measuring those could rule out a Sahara. If the Magura sticker is a clue then perhaps it's a Traverse Hydrotech... Who knows?

I've also found an image of a 1992 model year Sahara Elite which, wouldn't you know it, has a square section bridge along with all the other features of your frame.



But the lower end Saracens often seem to have used 'leftover' framesets from the previous model year. 1990 frames used in 1991 for example. They also got rid of surplus frames and components by building up non catalogue 'Special Edition', 'Race' and 'Elite' bikes.
Because of this, exact dates for Saracens are notoriously difficult to pin down once the decals and original components have been removed.
The serial numbers seem pretty meaningless and random too.

So then, I'm still sticking with your frame being produced in 1991, but I'm not entirely convinced it's a Sahara.

Interesting Saracen throw another anomaly into unknown depts of their manufacturing

I would say its of a 92 vintage , my 92 Conquest has the same square bridge but is an alloy frame, this square bridge is not on the 1991 Version.