Reprodution stickers and Original frames

Being somewhat of a stickler for detail when it comes to building up a classic bike, I can't help but notice the number of frames being offered for sale with reproduction decals that are incorrect and in some cases downright fraudulent.

I tend to spend quite a bit of time researching potential buys (sad I know), but prefer to see a few scratches and faded decals rather than shiny looking paint on a 20/30yr frameset.

Although I would probably not spend more than a few hundred quid on a good steel frame, it would be frustrating to get a plain gauge donkey of a frame when you thought you were buying a 753 lightweight cheetah.

So far I haven't bought a donkey but I'm sure some have.

I agree.

But how do you tell a 653 from a hi tens :? Perhaps a flick test :?

This is a quandry.

For me I love finding out what a frame is, and researching it, then restoring it or making it my own.

My Dyna Tech Ti road bike is a case in point. I got a 625Ti in about 1993. I have had it since and when it looked really tatty I had it resprayed. The Metal Matrix Chronos road bike was top of the range in 1993, I loved the deep purple ends and sparking silver main tubes. So I had mine painted to match.
I have never passed it as an MMC, or tried to. Just had my oldest and best loved bike painted in my favourite colour scheme.

I am sure that some less than scrupulous individuals have abused the fact that many frames share similar features and decals are freely availible.
Frame numbers are the key, as are marque experts.

Many on here know an almost unhealthy amount about their chosen brand or steed. Use them, pick their brains, lots of pics and as much info as possible.

tintin40":h4jsz71x said:

I agree.

But how do you tell a 653 from a hi tens :? Perhaps a flick test :?

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look inside the bb shell ,the chain stays should be black on the inside is one give away and the fork column will be a lighter gauge than say 531 and also black

Don't worry about decals or tubing types. Just take it for a ride. If it rides nicely, that is all you need to know.

All things being equal, a good builder can generally make a better riding bike with poor tubing than can a poor builder with good tubing.

I think theres a tipping point.

If the paint is rusted/heavily chipped and generally very ragged I dont see the problem in a respray.

If the paint work is still in pretty decent shape, im all for a bit of t-cut and sympathy. Depends on bike too, rarity wise.

playford":34gdwbsy said:

I think theres a tipping point.

If the paint is rusted/heavily chipped and generally very ragged I dont see the problem in a respray.

If the paint work is still in pretty decent shape, im all for a bit of t-cut and sympathy. Depends on bike too, rarity wise.

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Very true. Hit the nail on the head.

Indentifying frames and fraudulent decals etc, etc.

Guys,

you are absolutely right, given the interest and rightly so in"classic"framesets and bikes - especially steel ones.

Best indentifier is always lugs and originality, however if a frame has been restored there might always be a question mark abot authenticity.

For my part if I buy a frame/bike I'll try to keep it original, but if it is but needs a resto then I'll take pics before and after.

If it sees to good to be true it probably is - a fraud.

This forum and site is a great medium, so much knowledge, so don't be hurried into a purchase do the research.

I always wanted a Gillot, nearly bought one (it wasn't particularly cheap either), I asked a few questions of people who knew about these frames and discovered it was a ringer...however when I asked the seller for the frame number his lack of reply made me suspect a fraud.

Cheers, Roadking.

TheElectronKid":118udakz said:

Being somewhat of a stickler for detail when it comes to building up a classic bike, I can't help but notice the number of frames being offered for sale with reproduction decals that are incorrect and in some cases downright fraudulent.

I tend to spend quite a bit of time researching potential buys (sad I know), but prefer to see a few scratches and faded decals rather than shiny looking paint on a 20/30yr frameset.

Although I would probably not spend more than a few hundred quid on a good steel frame, it would be frustrating to get a plain gauge donkey of a frame when you thought you were buying a 753 lightweight cheetah.

So far I haven't bought a donkey but I'm sure some have.

Click to expand...

I think you have to do the best you can. A few examples from my own fleet.

Carlton Flyer - bought as a near basket case, repainted with correct decals, fine.

60's Geoffrey Butler and 60's Mercian - both have their correct decals and paint jobs at the moment, but both need repainting, the Mercian especially, and I can't get exactly the right decals, so I will do the best I can.

My day to day 80's 531 Raleigh, badged as a Rourke, and with 653 decals. I bough it like this, and paid a very reasonable price, but it isn't what it says it is - it's a pro respray, so the incorrect tubing decals are a little naughty, whoever did them. It rides brilliantly though.

The truth is that a lot of classic frames have paintwork that is too far gone to realistically save, and much as I'd like to keep them original, if it has rust, it needs painting. Waxing etc will only keep rust at bay for a while.

Hi Nick,

I wonder if I can ask, I'm about to restore two Geoffrey Butler Frames, both will need a respray but I am worried about the Transfers, can you advise where I might get authentic ones from?

The track Frame has a Columbus Gara Sticker on, so I will also need to obtain a replacement, the Touring/Training Frame was 531 and I know that for a fact as I bought it direct from the original owner, so again I need to find stickers for that.

Any help would be appreciated.

Many Thanks.