New Bike Chat -->1998 on section
- Thread starter john
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CAPIN
Retro Guru
Ken
I know where you coming from but im afrait it proves my point.
Mag 21 you said is is 93. way into ninetees. Acording to you THE END of golden time. I see it rather the beginning of it with a fork that got at least suspension/damping right. sort of.
Its misleading to pick ONE component that was ahead of its time in some respect and judge he whole era by it.
Could we take Pongs Magic cranks and say that by 91 the crankset design peaked its evolution?
By your logic that would be true. ... Oversized hollow axle with superior interface. Cups OUTSIDE bb! massive hollow crankarms... But when you look around you see it took industry more than 10 years since some of those features got adopted..
I guess its the angle of the view
You take as the golden age the time when problems were first proposed-put on the table.
I feel its more time when those problems were worked on and started beeing solved.
I know where you coming from but im afrait it proves my point.
Mag 21 you said is is 93. way into ninetees. Acording to you THE END of golden time. I see it rather the beginning of it with a fork that got at least suspension/damping right. sort of.
Its misleading to pick ONE component that was ahead of its time in some respect and judge he whole era by it.
Could we take Pongs Magic cranks and say that by 91 the crankset design peaked its evolution?
By your logic that would be true. ... Oversized hollow axle with superior interface. Cups OUTSIDE bb! massive hollow crankarms... But when you look around you see it took industry more than 10 years since some of those features got adopted..
I guess its the angle of the view
You take as the golden age the time when problems were first proposed-put on the table.
I feel its more time when those problems were worked on and started beeing solved.
I see what you are saying, I think of the golden age in any subject as the years when innovative designs are formed and produced whether it be by big or small companies, the level of sales isn't as important as the design solution in my eyes. But in the case of MTB and also contradicting that statement I think of it as the years when it truly took off as a mass market "hobby" and those years were 1988 to 92/3.
With regards to cranks (although this is going off topic a bit), Sweet wings and Bulleyes preceeded the Magics by several years with hollowform axles, Pongs were simply the pinnacle of this design adding the external bearings.
These were small companies and as a result items were generally expensive with patents to submit and high prodution costs. I have no doubt that the big players simply waited for these companies to go bust before taking their concepts to avoid hefty patent payouts.
Maybe we should start a break out thread on the Golden age of MTB and see what comes up.
With regards to cranks (although this is going off topic a bit), Sweet wings and Bulleyes preceeded the Magics by several years with hollowform axles, Pongs were simply the pinnacle of this design adding the external bearings.
These were small companies and as a result items were generally expensive with patents to submit and high prodution costs. I have no doubt that the big players simply waited for these companies to go bust before taking their concepts to avoid hefty patent payouts.
Maybe we should start a break out thread on the Golden age of MTB and see what comes up.
I've held back on my thoughts because I don't feel as though I'm active or retro enough (certainly at the moment, although this will change in the new year) to pass comment. However, if you are going to have a separate 'for sale' section for 98+, somebody needs to moderate the original for sale forum and move all posts that are selling only 98+ components, otherwise you may as well not bother.
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Ahhh well my recent thoughts.......
, I love retrobike, its the first thing i do in the morning and last thing i do at night, or at least it was, But I agree also with paul and Nick C's comments, the site seems to have lost something now.
I have endured the site since the change ( thats what it feels like ) and really really do not like it, the for sale section is just a ladies panty girdle IMO,not ruled with an iron fist= as long as you put one retro item with all the other stuff its cool, do I pipe up and say when i spot a post 98 item and seem like a twat!, or let it ride as i have been..... ( the answer has always been let it ride by the way
visiting the post 98 section seems like visiting a post apocalyptic no go area( melodramatic i know), bit its a waste if time,and i dont think its lack of interest its just people have stopped looking there ( i know i have),seems that threads are moved or left without reason, 98-2011 is such a crazy long gap
, It wasnt just the era, we are all men ( and ladies, Cas) and people then of a certain age who loved bikes then and still love bikes , it was being able to discuss bikes in a sensible mature way and all that that mattered, not like rate my underpants, do they look pretty etc)
I mean why the change???, i in the 2 ish years i have been here ( short i know, johnny come lately etc) have never seen a comment saying, oooh why is this here, this is too modern etc, the site worked before,,,why was the change????
Single track and other sites cater for a year or two ago if i had something to buy or sell that was modern, I went there, Retro bike always did old skool and mid skool so well, now its forgetting about mid skool its not the site it was
Im 36 now, always loved bikes ( and always will), from BMX to MTB, I have bikes from 89 to present day, but my 89er, current hack and my summer commuter all sport things both modernish and retro and there is no cut off IMO, ohhh i dont know where this is going, but I felt part of something before that i dont now,the site has not been improved IMO, its lost something that was lovely and that brought me here and kept me here in the first place, when i posted a question on the forum it was not because it was necessarily retro it was becuase the answer and opinion i could expect was the one i wanted from peers i respected, from guys who ride then and ride now, who had both retro and modern and cycled throughout the time etc...
oh well just my opinion John et al, not throwing my teddy out of the pram or owt like that, though if there are more sites other than the obvious modern ones i would be happy to know about them, publish and be damned I say, sorry a tad tipsy tonight....
, I love retrobike, its the first thing i do in the morning and last thing i do at night, or at least it was, But I agree also with paul and Nick C's comments, the site seems to have lost something now.
I have endured the site since the change ( thats what it feels like ) and really really do not like it, the for sale section is just a ladies panty girdle IMO,not ruled with an iron fist= as long as you put one retro item with all the other stuff its cool, do I pipe up and say when i spot a post 98 item and seem like a twat!, or let it ride as i have been..... ( the answer has always been let it ride by the way
visiting the post 98 section seems like visiting a post apocalyptic no go area( melodramatic i know), bit its a waste if time,and i dont think its lack of interest its just people have stopped looking there ( i know i have),seems that threads are moved or left without reason, 98-2011 is such a crazy long gap
, It wasnt just the era, we are all men ( and ladies, Cas) and people then of a certain age who loved bikes then and still love bikes , it was being able to discuss bikes in a sensible mature way and all that that mattered, not like rate my underpants, do they look pretty etc)
I mean why the change???, i in the 2 ish years i have been here ( short i know, johnny come lately etc) have never seen a comment saying, oooh why is this here, this is too modern etc, the site worked before,,,why was the change????
Single track and other sites cater for a year or two ago if i had something to buy or sell that was modern, I went there, Retro bike always did old skool and mid skool so well, now its forgetting about mid skool its not the site it was
Im 36 now, always loved bikes ( and always will), from BMX to MTB, I have bikes from 89 to present day, but my 89er, current hack and my summer commuter all sport things both modernish and retro and there is no cut off IMO, ohhh i dont know where this is going, but I felt part of something before that i dont now,the site has not been improved IMO, its lost something that was lovely and that brought me here and kept me here in the first place, when i posted a question on the forum it was not because it was necessarily retro it was becuase the answer and opinion i could expect was the one i wanted from peers i respected, from guys who ride then and ride now, who had both retro and modern and cycled throughout the time etc...
oh well just my opinion John et al, not throwing my teddy out of the pram or owt like that, though if there are more sites other than the obvious modern ones i would be happy to know about them, publish and be damned I say, sorry a tad tipsy tonight....
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Personally I'm like the site as it is now with all the modern stuff generally being kept away.
As for turn of the century stuff. Well if you don't visit and don't use it then don't blame anyone for it downfall. Use it or loose it.
I do not see 1998+ as a place to put modern stuff, just a place for the newerschoolsretrokids to chat and talk, shame it was taken as a license to be STW. (not that I actually know what STW is like )
For me modern stuff (can let consumables slide) should still go in off topic as it's well and truly off topic for this site
As for turn of the century stuff. Well if you don't visit and don't use it then don't blame anyone for it downfall. Use it or loose it.
I do not see 1998+ as a place to put modern stuff, just a place for the newerschoolsretrokids to chat and talk, shame it was taken as a license to be STW. (not that I actually know what STW is like
)For me modern stuff (can let consumables slide
) should still go in off topic as it's well and truly off topic for this site The problem with modern in off topic is that the folks would often butt in with their tuppence on modern kit. At least here people that enjoy retro and modern can chat to people they know about newer bikes without their thread turning into some Luddite protest! Charlie there used to be quite heavy moderation of the retro section if anything even whiffed of modernity.
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