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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:56 am 
King of the Skip Monkeys
King of the Skip Monkeys

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:34 pm
Posts: 32750
Almost identical Saracen (although possibly a preproduction model)

Image

And heres the original 1084 advert showing the Saracen/ Evans/ Bluemels version of your bike

Image

Image


Last edited by legrandefromage on Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:09 am 
BoTM | rBoTM | rider
BoTM | rBoTM | rider
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Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:42 pm
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Location: VCC Member 5558 East Riding of Yorkshire
Am I right in thinking that although the headset and seat clamp/bolt would benefit from a night in some EvapoRust, everything else just needs cleaning?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:10 am 
King of the Skip Monkeys
King of the Skip Monkeys

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So who was building frames at Bluemels in 1983? I'm sure that distinctive cable stop was a Yates thing but I may have had one too many bangs on the head


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:52 am 
Ain't no party like an S Club party
Ain't no party like an S Club party
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Location: 'I have too many DiskDrives!' said no one, ever.
Bluemels didn’t build bikes.

They acquired Saracen from the chap who set it up and then later sold it to the third set of owners when they went into liquidation.

Bluemels were in Wolston - now a housing estate - and Saracen were in Warwick.

There’s an early connection with Knights cycles from wolves, and Evans had their own frame builder in Mr Healey. That Saracen started as an up shoot of staples bike shop in kenilworth, and that F.W. Evans were themselves a two shop operation at the time, I don’t think either would have built for t other.

That suggests that both sourced frames initially from the same third party. The Saracen above is later, with simple cable stop and 531 tubing - at this point Saracen would have taken the design in house presumably and made some production changes, and Evans did similar.

Outsourcing could have been to msteel which would explain the Yates canti stop on first produced frames, also Jackson’s or Mercian - both of whom (though they won’t admit it) themselves outsourced at times to a local to here frame builder from Coventry.

That’s roughly where I’m thinking with things at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:35 pm 
Ain't no party like an S Club party
Ain't no party like an S Club party
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Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 4:54 pm
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Location: 'I have too many DiskDrives!' said no one, ever.
Saracen was set up by Brian Staples, as we know, when he sold his bike shop in Kenilworth and moved onto new things.

It was set up in Warwick, and made the first 'production' MTB frame in the UK, as we know.

[discounting earlier custom frames made by Roberts and others].

Who made the very first Saracens in lugged 501 with the distinctive rear cable stop - as seen here branded as F.W.Evans - in 1983...?

Tom Bromwich - in his local workshop in Far Gosford Street, Coventry. 8)

Later versions [lugged 531] with the simple cable stop were made by Jim Macilwain who had bought TBC off Tom.

Working with Jim a little later was Lee Cooper, my local frame builder and font of knowledge, who's garage in Ryton needs to be seen to be believed.

There is much more history to this, but that's for another time - the purpose of this little post was simply to set the record straight about who made the very first Saracen frames, as I was a little concerned about well intended, but misinformed, information becoming 'fact'.

As I mentioned previously, Bluemels never built frames - they simply bought Saracen the 'brand' from Brain Staples, and later sold the 'brand' [through being in liquidation] to the Stanford brothers - with all subsequent production being moved overseas as part of their vast profit making [sorry, expansion] plans...

So, there we go, hopefully that clears things up a little and it's certainly eased the little pain at the back of my head anyway.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:44 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
King of the Skip Monkeys

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:34 pm
Posts: 32750
It may be worthwhile to update this thread then viewtopic.php?f=1&t=77434&start=10


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:50 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 6:39 pm
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Location: South Devon
Nice bike, interesting info. Another FW Evans owner here... must get building mine!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:00 pm 
GOLD | PoTM | Rider | rBOTM
GOLD | PoTM | Rider | rBOTM
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Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:26 pm
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Location: Northest North Yorkshire. whippet real good...
I’ve got a special one too.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:42 am 
Ain't no party like an S Club party
Ain't no party like an S Club party
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Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 4:54 pm
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Location: 'I have too many DiskDrives!' said no one, ever.
ferrus wrote:
Hey that's fab, even nicer condition than expected. Great score there.
Will you keep the mudguards? (hope so!) :)


:P - oh yes they will be staying [family connection], and I'll be looking for some suitable period racks and panniers to add to them. :)

nstarmore wrote:
Enjoy, and if you get bored of it...


Thanks chap - will think of you if the time arises, but I'm afraid I can't see that happening anytime soon!

Peachy! wrote:
Am I right in thinking that although the headset and seat clamp/bolt would benefit from a night in some EvapoRust, everything else just needs cleaning?


Completely correct. It's in excellent condition, and things like the 'marks' on the cranks etc are simply age old black grease which will come off when the strip down and clean begins. Slightly frustratingly, until recently it even had the original tyres, but the seller swapped them for new ones in order to get it ready for his wife, and binned them! aaaarghhhh!

:lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:13 am 
Old School GrandMaster | Rider
Old School GrandMaster | Rider
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Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:29 pm
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Location: peak district
Glad you got this and it is on here, unfortunately i missed the end of the auction, but i feel you would have probably bid a bit higher anyway :)

It sounds like it will get a bit more love there too, i would have just rode it.

Looking forward to seeing, and reading, more 8)


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