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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:18 pm 
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Location: Berne, Switzerland
pipmeister wrote:
newsboy wrote:
pipmeister wrote:
Well, a bit of a flurry with serial numbers at the moment - thanks once again go to Alasdair and Sándor for bringing these latest couple of additions to my attention.

Firstly, a unique example of a 21" 1991 Hei Hei :shock: . Blimey, that will have a bit of spring to its ride.

Then the earliest example we've seen of a 1997 King Kahuna - the first of the "K" prefix numbers.

Pip

a the 21“ from 1989...

Yes your are indeed quite correct that Kona produced 21" frames from the 1988/9 range onwards - I have on file a picture of a very interesting '88/'89 Explosif in 21".

This Serial Number List however is for Kona Titanium frames, which you are probably aware were produced for them from 1990 to 2000. The Hei Hei was first introduced for the 1991 range, and the example above that was brought to my attention is the first example in 21" that I currently know of - or any other Kona Titanium frame come to that.

Many thanks, Pip.


the owner is 100% sure he bought it in 1989...
https://www.facebook.com/groups/5534645 ... 828689232/


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:04 pm 
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Rightyho - I had to ask Sándor to send me the details from the Facebook link as I am not a member.

The frame is a 1991 Hei Hei, regardless of what the owner claims.

Some better pictures would be helpful as I would love to see that 21" geometry on a Hei Hei.

The receipt showing 20” is correct for a 21” frame. Back then in 1991, Kona were measuring from the top of the Bottom Bracket, while TST (and everyone else?) were measuring from the centre of the Bottom Bracket. I have another invoice for a frame that documents it as 18”, but it is stamped B19014.

Pip


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:56 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:57 pm
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Location: York, UK
So I got my frame today, and very nice it is too.

Both 93 and 94 catalogues seem to suggest the top tube is measured as 'effective rather than actual, and from the centre of the head tube to the back of the line of the seat tube (please, someone correct me if I'm wrong)
Measuring my frame this measurement comes out at 23inches, which suggest its 94 geo.
Just for reference and if anyone can compare their 18", the actual top tube length from centre of headtube to back of seat tube is 22.5 (along the actual top tube).
Measured in this way it would suggest 93.
So really, I'm no clearer. Although I will say its only a point of interest for me, I'm over the moon with the frame no matter what year it is !


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:15 pm 
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I realise that the Kona Catalogue shows Effective Top Tube length.

The measurements that I quoted are Centre to Centre, and came from members on this site, and from Anthony's posts.

To measure Centre to Centre, you'll need the judge a halfway point of the Head Tube and the Seat Tube, which is somewhat tricky - see picture below:

Attachment:
1993 Hei Hei B18136 measure.jpg
1993 Hei Hei B18136 measure.jpg [ 523.56 KiB | Viewed 114 times ]


You can affect the bike's handling quite dramatically with a fork that it was not intended to run with. You'll benefit from searching out some posts from Anthony as I suggested.

Pip


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:23 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:57 pm
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Location: York, UK
Thanks pip.
I've been working in the cycle industry since 95 and seen and done a fair bit with fork lengths and geometries. I've honestly never, ever found a problem with slackening a head angle a degree or so, granted it definitely does effect things, of course it does, but often not a s much as people obsess over. I once ran a surly instigator 2, designed for a 140mm travel fork, with a rigid steel fork for over a year ! Quite an extreme example, but still.

I've read a few of Anthony's posts, and he clearly knows his onions, but as I say, this is more a point of interest for me rather than a 'should I, shouldn't i' deal.

Anyway, I'll measure as you suggest and hopefully I can add some interesting and valuable information to your list!!

EDIT: just measured now, its 21 1/2. So a 1993 then!


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:44 pm 
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Thank you for your helpful reply.

I was beginning to think that the Serial Number List may require a bit of a reshuffle :facepalm: !

Anyway, one of the confirmed measurements came from a previous owner of B19667, which is listed as a 1993 pre-suspension corrected geometry. I'll do a bit of a search now, and see if I can uncover the thread where he revealed his findings.

Pip


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:16 pm 
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jinjrich wrote:
Anyway, I'll measure as you suggest and hopefully I can add some interesting and valuable information to your list!!

EDIT: just measured now, its 21 1/2. So a 1993 then!

Here you go; Bear in mind that this example is a 19" frame, so the Top Tube is a little longer than yours, but you can see how I was convinced to put it with the 1993 frames.

Sadly the pictures are lost to Photobucket, but I think I got the full Serial Number from the next owner.

Scroll down for his explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=128425&p=951566&hilit

Well done on getting your frame BTW :wink: .

Pip


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:57 pm
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Brilliant. I think we've nailed it down to a 93!
At least i don't need a new down tube decal :D !

A couple of pics i managed to get tonight:

Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:02 pm 
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Rightyho, I’ve updated the list a couple of times since I last wrote on here. Once again thanks go out to Sándor for his continuing supply of confirmed Serial Numbers :D .

Another 1995 Hei Hei with the geometry of a flatter Top Tube / shorter Seat Tube extension.

The first confirmed Serial Number in 19” of a 1997 Hei Hei. A later model with all Top Tube Routing, and some would say, the slightly more desirable Blue Decals.

Finally, another rare 1996 King Kahuna 6Al-4V, bringing the total to a dozen confirmed Serial Numbers 8) .

Pip.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:12 pm
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Hey new to this page but wanted to chime in!
I picked up a used Kona Ti King Kahuna last year. Going by the info in this thread it's a 1996.
Serial #: B19900 64

Just wanted to add to your serial number collection! I'll post some pics of the bike later!


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