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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:04 am 
Dirt Disciple
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Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:10 pm
Posts: 89
I've been toying with the idea of replacing my old (2000) maxlight frame with a 853, such as a lobster or similar. I'm old school steel kinda guy and despite 2 seasons xc on the alloy, I find it too harsh compaired with steel.

Anybody got or using a 853 frame such as a lobster etc? Cantilever brakes for sure.

Any thoughts on reliability of tubes and weights?

Cheers.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:06 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:09 pm
Posts: 275
Got a full 2002 18" Kona Explosif for sale at £450. This rides better than my 2002 Rocky Mountain Blizzard (Reynolds 853) and 2002 Rocky Mountain Hammer (Reynolds 725).

Frame only for the Kona was £450 in 2002.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:21 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:43 pm
Posts: 770
Location: Cambridgeshire - flatlands (the horror, the horror)
Yes, I have thoughts.

853 is excellent. A compliant yet rowdy tubeset. But of course it has to be applied in the right way by the designer and build well by the builder.

Columbus can be excellent.
Tange Prestige was implemented well in the 1990s Team Marins
Keith B knew what to do with steel, and his was ‘un-numbered’ steel.
Cy Turner (Cotic) and Dan Stanton (er...Stanton) are masters of 853

I have had mtbs through all the developments - from the first imports of Marin though to current Transitions and Stantons. I like the ‘essence’ of the Bontragers which live on in the Cotics. Why not bite the bullet and get modern geometry? I love my old steel Oranges and Bontrager. But I hoon down singletrack on my new(ish) bikes, relishing the geometry and performance. Go on....get an 853 Mk3 Soul....they go for peanuts comparatively speaking....ride the Bejeezuz out of it. Look at the tubes and think of the history of mountain biking, and relish the lightness of a well-built Soul (we get ours to 25-27lbs all in, with bullet proof components).

I like doing a bit of work everynow and again on my steel Oranges - nickel P7 and C16R - and love them - but I have just finished a ‘new geometry’ FS Transition, and am waiting for a new Stanton Ti 29er. Love the old, embrace the new. Invent yourself, then re-invent yourself.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:32 am 
Dirt Disciple
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Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:10 pm
Posts: 89
I ride an 89 and a 91 team Marin as retro bikes along with an 91 orange prestige. So I like my steel and I'm nimble enough not to worry about thin tubes.

I've got a 2013 Scott with fox, xtr etc, as a modern bike, but I'm looking more to replace my cross country blaster, where I dont see suspension really helps. Might just be because I grew up without it! Or its mainly for flat forest use.

Like I said the alloy rigid, is rough and really soulless, hence the question about 853 frames.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:33 am 
Dirt Disciple
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Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:10 pm
Posts: 89
As for new geometry. I find modern frames far too lax for me. Downhill fine, speed nooooo. But, as always, that's just my opinion and experience.

Saying that a marriage of both might be good. So maybe a early 2000 steel.


Last edited by Tootyred on Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:40 am 
Dirt Disciple
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Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:10 pm
Posts: 89
Is there any noticeable material difference between prestige and 853 in terms of weight, construction, flex etc.

I know this is subjective to the design, but would be interested in thoughts.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:45 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:22 am
Posts: 250
Tootyred wrote:
Is there any noticeable material difference between prestige and 853 in terms of weight, construction, flex etc.

I know this is subjective to the design, but would be interested in thoughts.


The diameter of tubes chosen by the builder/ designer makes the difference. If it´s 853, prestige, true temper or even aluminum or titanium .. it makes negligible difference when riding. There are aluminum frames which are comfortable and some are even flexy. Titanium, steel, aluminum, carbon... it is about the builder not the tubing brand.
Even when it comes to durability: a well built bike will last longer than a poorly brazed one.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:11 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:02 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Prodigal Son wrote:
Tootyred wrote:
Is there any noticeable material difference between prestige and 853 in terms of weight, construction, flex etc.

I know this is subjective to the design, but would be interested in thoughts.


The diameter of tubes chosen by the builder/ designer makes the difference. If it´s 853, prestige, true temper or even aluminum or titanium .. it makes negligible difference when riding. There are aluminum frames which are comfortable and some are even flexy. Titanium, steel, aluminum, carbon... it is about the builder not the tubing brand.
Even when it comes to durability: a well built bike will last longer than a poorly brazed one.


Well said. I have experience with all the tubing listed as well as Columbus and the design and fabrication count for a lot. I have had a few nice Prestige tubed hardtails that I would put up against any material in terms of ride quality.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:41 pm 
Dirt Disciple
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Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:10 pm
Posts: 89
Well if theres not a lot in it tubing wise, I think I might swap the components onto a spare team Marin prestige frame I have. It would certainly be cheaper.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Although I still think ever alloy frame I've ridden is unfeeling compaired with steel. Imo.!


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:33 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:02 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
The Team Marin Prestige should be an excellent choice. I had '93 Pine Mountain and it was a tremendous bike.


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