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 Post subject: Wheel building help
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:47 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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Location: Yateley, Hants.
Not strictly retro but will apply on both old and new.
Anyway I purchased some mavic crossride wheels (bladed spoke models) and I’ve had to replace several spokes as they were ceased into the nipples and snapped when I tried to true it. To stop them ceasing and rusting up I used a bit of copper slip on the threads, which as I’ve now ridden the bike an at least 4 of the spokes have backed off resulting in an badly out of true wheel and really wobbly feeling rear end.
Question is should I add anything to the spoke threads (they are just painted steel and not stainless) or leave them bare and live with having to replace the odd one as they rust and cease again? Or should the tension stop them backing off even with copper slip on them?

Carl


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 Post subject: Re: Wheel building help
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:27 am 
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I put some assembly lube on the spoke threads and do them up tight, I have never had any loosening.


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 Post subject: Re: Wheel building help
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:21 am 
rider | rBoTM Winner
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What material are the nipples? I assume aluminium if you’ve got them seizing up. Personally I wouldn’t trust any attempt at creating a galvanic barrier with a chemical/lubricant on a spoke.
It would be better to remove the cause, so that’s either remove the electrolyte (water) by only riding in the dry and keeping the bike indoors or replacing the less noble metal component (aluminium nipples) with one closer on the galvanic scale to steel (brass nipples)


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 Post subject: Re: Wheel building help
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:57 am 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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I think the nipples are brass, the main problem is the spoke being painted mild steel and not stainless is corrosion due to moisture, the grease was to protect against that really.

Carl


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 Post subject: Re: Wheel building help
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:46 am 
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Copper slip grease isn't great in this particular application. Here's some methods that I use to keep wheels in serviceable condition:

I always use brass nipples. Aluminium nipples are torture when it comes to making any adjustments to a wheel that has been ridden and corrosion has set in.

When building, I oil the spoke threads with a light engine oil (whatever was cheapest last time I needed some), and also oil the spoke holes/eyelets of the rim.

Build tight. I almost always build to the max tension recommended by the rim manufacturers.

Always make sure spoke tensions are as close to being equal all around the wheel as possible. You can do this by plucking spokes and comparing the tone. Any that are noticeably too slack or tight in comparison to the average for that side of the wheel should be addressed.

Once a wheel has been ridden, some occasional preventative maintenance will make life easier if you do run into problems later:

A drop of light oil such as 3 in 1 or sewing machine oil, dropped into the top of the nipple every month or so will keep things moveable. Rotation of the wheel will help it soak in and down the threads.

Check spoke tensions every so often using the method above.


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 Post subject: Re: Wheel building help
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:02 am 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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Location: Yateley, Hants.
In this case the spokes/nipples are Mavic specific, I think my problems is tension anxiety as I'd broken so many spokes and only have a kinked one left I didn't want to break anymore as I need the wheel for bike park wales on friday. The wheel felt floppy from the start, so tonight I'm going to tension it properly and if I break spokes I'll have to go with the spare wheel I have.

Carl.


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 Post subject: Re: Wheel building help
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:09 pm 
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Location: Cougar Hunting...
I see Mavic wheels all the time which have nowhere near enough tension in the spokes from new. Their quality control leaves a lot to be desired.

Adding tension (carefully) should both reduce spoke breakage and give you a straighter wheel for longer.

The cheaper ones with standard nipples are reasonably easy to sort out. The ones with the UST cup nonsense are a nightmare if they've been left to corrode.


I know you know what you're doing, but for others with similar issues...

For your wheel:

Oil ALL the nipples and spin them for a bit to work it in.

Get any loose spokes up to similar tension as the rest - I'm assuming you have something to hold the bladed spokes steady while you work?

Bear in mind that you may need to back some nipples off a touch to free them before re-oiling and adding tension to get them evenly tensioned.

Once you have all spokes on each side with relatively even tension, add more tension all round. A quarter or at most half a turn should be plenty given that the wheel is technically already finished. The recommended max tension for Crossride spokes is 100/120 kgf on the front and 110/130 kgf on the rear... That's fairly tight.

Assuming they're disc wheels, focus on getting the spoke tensions as even as you can rather than having the wheel perfectly true.

Good luck and enjoy the weekend of riding.


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 Post subject: Re: Wheel building help
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:41 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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Well that didn’t go exactly to plan. Got some tension in the spokes and began trueing them up again and the spoke key broke in half! Need to get another tomorrow or Thursday and get a little more tension in them. I do have about 4 spokes that won’t move though and after breaking several due to rusted threads I don’t want to push them too far, but reckon I only need about a 1/4 on most spokes to get them done. Fingers crossed that wil sort it.

Carl


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 Post subject: Re: Wheel building help
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:54 pm 
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Location: Cougar Hunting...
Feck! That's a pain!

If you've already oiled the stuck nipples, the extra soaking time might mean they'll be able to move by the time you get a new spoke wrench.

Try cracking them free by loosening the nipple first.

Good luck for round two!

Cheers
Ken


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:33 am 
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Agree with points above. Id make sure its all correctly tensioned before BPW. Sudden pretzel front wheel jam can hurt real bad !


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