Policeman guilty of assault

Neil · Sep 1, 2013

TGR":1rc7ev4g said:
I re-read the report and note that the offence was Common Assault and not AOABH which would mean the the injured party suffered minimal injury (if any injury at all). It mentions 2 punches which is not 'repeatedly hitting' IMHO.

Just reread it myself. It also says this:-

BBC News webpage":1rc7ev4g said:
Scarlett wiped his face of spit, opened the van door and intentionally "launched" himself at Uba, punching him twice, the court was told.

Note: "opened the van door and intentionally "launched" himself at Uba..." - so it doesn't look like an instinctive, immediate response, but looks like something done after a moment of consideration.

lumos2000 · Sep 1, 2013

meanwhile in chorley

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-la ... e-23914417

highlandsflyer · Sep 1, 2013

All these keyboard warriors saying they would do the same, you are all trained police officers are you?

What if the person who spat at the officer was mentally impaired? A small female disabled person?

The fact is the police are trained to deal with violence. Launching into an assault on someone under your custody, regardless of the provocation, is unforgivable.

My sister in law is in the Met, and her comment on this was, "If that is the way he behaved in the open, what might he do inside a cell?"

We_are_Stevo · Sep 1, 2013

Perhaps he was just sick of the scum he has to deal with day in, day out...

...beginning to think Marie Stopes had the right idea after all. :|

Neil · Sep 1, 2013

highlandsflyer":b4t970lk said:
All these keyboard warriors saying they would do the same, you are all trained police officers are you?

What if the person who spat at the officer was mentally impaired? A small female disabled person?

The fact is the police are trained to deal with violence. Launching into an assault on someone under your custody, regardless of the provocation, is unforgivable.

My sister in law is in the Met, and her comment on this was, "If that is the way he behaved in the open, what might he do inside a cell?"

FPWM.

If he was prepared to open a van door to have another dip - it's not that much more of an extrapolation to think about opening a cell door and having another dig.

There's likely a reason why this copper was found guilty, perhaps more than shows in a brief webpage. But I suspect it's mostly due to it sounding like a premeditated response, as opposed to simply lashing out right when it happened.

retrocomeback · Sep 1, 2013

highlandsflyer":2hsv5zgo said:
The fact is the police are trained to deal with violence. Launching into an assault on someone under your custody, regardless of the provocation, is unforgivable

I'm ex job (having seen the light!), and whilst trained to deal with such situations and experienced the, first hand more than I care to recall I readily admit to having acted in a similar vain to this officer. It may be the situations were slightly different but the law says I could use reasonable force to protect myself or others, and if that meant I punched someone in order to stop them spitting at me and it happened to break their jaw then that's just tough, I wouldn't and didn't think twice about it. I myself have justified such levels of violence on a number of occasions, it may well just be this particular officers notes of the incident weren't upto scratch, he got unlucky with a clueless magistrate, or indeed his forces professional standards dept needed to meet their target of 'apprehended bent coppers' that month (no, I'm not making that last one up!).

It simply is not as black and white as the media reports would have you believe.

Neil · Sep 1, 2013

retrocomeback":3uacxzh4 said:
highlandsflyer":3uacxzh4 said:

The fact is the police are trained to deal with violence. Launching into an assault on someone under your custody, regardless of the provocation, is unforgivable

Click to expand...

I'm ex job (having seen the light!), and whilst trained to deal with such situations and experienced the, first hand more than I care to recall I readily admit to having acted in a similar vain to this officer. It may be the situations were slightly different but the law says I could use reasonable force to protect myself or others, and if that meant I punched someone in order to stop them spitting at me and it happened to break their jaw then that's just tough, I wouldn't and didn't think twice about it. I myself have justified such levels of violence on a number of occasions, it may well just be this particular officers notes of the incident weren't upto scratch, he got unlucky with a clueless magistrate, or indeed his forces professional standards dept needed to meet their target of 'apprehended bent coppers' that month (no, I'm not making that last one up!).

It simply is not as black and white as the media reports would have you believe.

Two things...

1:-

BBC News webpage":3uacxzh4 said:
Scarlett wiped his face of spit, opened the van door and intentionally "launched" himself at Uba, punching him twice, the court was told.

Note: "opened the van door and intentionally "launched" himself at Uba..." - so it doesn't look like an instinctive, immediate response, but looks like something done after a moment of consideration.

2:-

BBC News webpage":3uacxzh4 said:
We do not accept that the defendant honestly believed that he needed to use force to defend himself in these circumstances”

Sue Rose
Chair of the bench

If he opened the van door again, to have another go, he wasn't defending himself.

We_are_Stevo · Sep 1, 2013

It would be interesting to have a time machine and be able to see accurately how long we have before society breaks down completely :|

Neil · Sep 1, 2013

We_are_Stevo":3p7kguua said:
It would be interesting to have a time machine and be able to see accurately how long we have before society breaks down completely :|

I'm completely not getting this - are you saying finding a copper guilty for opening up a van door again, and walloping some ne'er-do-well a couple of times is suggestive that society is heading for meltdown?

What's the difference between that, and going into a cell and giving a kicking to some mouthy scrote?

I'm just waiting for the obligatory "when did you stop beating your wife?"

TGR · Sep 1, 2013

Another 2p's worth

I do see a difference in "going into a cell and giving a kicking to" anyone and the reaction to someone spitting into you mouth, irrespective of whether the officer had to open a door to get to the spitter or not.

Consider a normal person's reaction to the spit - Police officers may receive training in relation to use of force etc. but at the end of the day, they are people and sometimes will react to provocation. Reacting may, in some circumstances, be wrong and it appears in this case, the Court has found the officer to be in the wrong.

I do understand that within the confines of the law, the officer is in the wrong - spitting in someone's mouth will not cause them any immediate harm and there is not a need to protect yourself from impending injury etc BUT what I have been trying to explain is that, in my opinion, the officer reacted in a normal human way.

Richard

Policeman guilty of assault

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highlandsflyer

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Neil

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Neil

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We_are_Stevo

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