Chinese Oakleys
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lumos2000":2133uy4j said:
"A gruffalo? What's a gruffalo"
(I still read it to my youngest, from time-to-time!)
Personally, I've never got the draw of fake designer stuff. Now getting decent stuff, cheaply, I can understand, but I've never understood the fake thing - watches, clothes, jewellery, badging up cars to be something they're not - just don't get it, I've never quite got why so many are so needy to pretend to have something they don't really have.
As to the morality and economics of it - well it's just displaced, really, isn't it. I suppose passing off, and counterfeiting will always be seen by those with the rights, as something heinous. Thing is, whilst there may always be some who are happy to fake it, there will always be plenty who are more than happy to pay the price to show off something, so I'm inclined to think it just supports an alternative model of capitalism that the have-nots are reasonable content to sponsor.
Of course, "I could be wrong, and it could be a terrible tragedy..."
highlandsflyer
Retro Wizard
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I find fake goods funny. I like getting off the plane in Hong Kong or Manila and being able to buy just about anything you like for next to nothing. I could care less about the sweatshops because all the actual designer goods are made in exactly the same places. Clothing wise that is.
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right steve stop trolling, fmj stop getting wound up, everybody stop buying snide goods and will everybody do the ELE "everybody love everybody" i'm gonna tan all your arses collectively. This forum has always been a relaxed place but of late people's tension's are high and there are more and more people trolling even those who have not done it before (but mostly steve) so stop it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
highlandsflyer
Retro Wizard
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Ooh, hark at her!
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highlandsflyer":x4ht35h3 said:
Sorry I felt like playing angry dad for a laugh
We_are_Stevo
Old School Grand Master
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I'm not allowed to voice an opinion for fear of upsetting some delicate middleaged wallflower or other, so I won't... :roll:
RadNomad
Senior Retro Guru
The whole counterfeiting topic is complex. I don't condone it, however i believe extreme views (parasites, scum etc) show a lack of understanding. It is possible to argue both sides of the debate with some merit.
The 'against counterfeiting' camp will rightly point out that laws are broken, criminals are therefore involved, intellectual property / trademarks are infringed, manufacturing standards are not met, working conditions of staff are substandard, taxes are not paid, users of the products are placed in danger, people are ripped off etc. All legitimate and compelling reasons to condemn counterfeiting and yes, arguably stronger arguments than the other camp.
The 'for / indifferent toward counterfeiting' camp might rightly point out that most people on the planet cannot afford luxury or even good quality products so they don't even have the "you get what you pay for" choice (most purchasers of fake goods live in developing countries, not so-called first world nations). Yes, they could buy non-counterfeit cheapo items but these poorer people have aspirations and dreams just like anyone else, they don't want things which demonstrate they are poor, or look crap. Hence a market is created whether the "against" camp like it or not. They will point out that counterfeiting factories provide jobs for people who desperately need work - it is industry and commerce after all - and that not all counterfeit factories are dire sweatshops, while ironically many 'genuine' factories are. This camp can also point out that counterfeit items are generally bought by people who would/could never pay top dollar for genuine, so the big corporations are not really losing huge earnings. Also many counterfeit traders are not trying to rip you off by passing them off as genuine - they are often (though not always) sold on markets at knock down prices and openly sold as fake - you get what you pay for and you know it. Makers of cheap products provide livelihoods for hundreds of thousands of families - yes they could make no-name cheap sunglasses but copying a style that the customers want is a hard temptation for desperate people to resist. Not all fakers are rich mafia bosses, many are on the breadline, and some of those who have become criminal counterfeiting kingpins are self-made entrepreneurs who started out with nothing living in countries with no decent education from their government and were desperate to improve their hard lives.
Where it gets dangerous and unforgivable is the deliberate faking of safety related goods and passing them off as genuine (aircraft parts, car brake pads etc). This the most compelling and rightful reason to stamp out counterfeiting.
Again, i am not condoning this practice, i myself always buy, appreciate and enjoy the quality of genuine products. However i have lived over 15 years in countries like Saudi Arabia (where many people are poor), Indonesia and India and seen first hand and at some length the desperate situation many people are living. It literally makes one's heart ache. Most of these people couldn't give a rats ass about protecting an American corporation's trademarks. Some countries' governments even openly contract the manufacture of counterfeit medicines as they can't afford western prices.
Hence this topic is deep and far reaching and definately requires more depth of understanding than to simply call them 'scum'. I would agree though that people who can afford genuine products really should buy genuine and they are just being cheapskates if they don't.
The 'against counterfeiting' camp will rightly point out that laws are broken, criminals are therefore involved, intellectual property / trademarks are infringed, manufacturing standards are not met, working conditions of staff are substandard, taxes are not paid, users of the products are placed in danger, people are ripped off etc. All legitimate and compelling reasons to condemn counterfeiting and yes, arguably stronger arguments than the other camp.
The 'for / indifferent toward counterfeiting' camp might rightly point out that most people on the planet cannot afford luxury or even good quality products so they don't even have the "you get what you pay for" choice (most purchasers of fake goods live in developing countries, not so-called first world nations). Yes, they could buy non-counterfeit cheapo items but these poorer people have aspirations and dreams just like anyone else, they don't want things which demonstrate they are poor, or look crap. Hence a market is created whether the "against" camp like it or not. They will point out that counterfeiting factories provide jobs for people who desperately need work - it is industry and commerce after all - and that not all counterfeit factories are dire sweatshops, while ironically many 'genuine' factories are. This camp can also point out that counterfeit items are generally bought by people who would/could never pay top dollar for genuine, so the big corporations are not really losing huge earnings. Also many counterfeit traders are not trying to rip you off by passing them off as genuine - they are often (though not always) sold on markets at knock down prices and openly sold as fake - you get what you pay for and you know it. Makers of cheap products provide livelihoods for hundreds of thousands of families - yes they could make no-name cheap sunglasses but copying a style that the customers want is a hard temptation for desperate people to resist. Not all fakers are rich mafia bosses, many are on the breadline, and some of those who have become criminal counterfeiting kingpins are self-made entrepreneurs who started out with nothing living in countries with no decent education from their government and were desperate to improve their hard lives.
Where it gets dangerous and unforgivable is the deliberate faking of safety related goods and passing them off as genuine (aircraft parts, car brake pads etc). This the most compelling and rightful reason to stamp out counterfeiting.
Again, i am not condoning this practice, i myself always buy, appreciate and enjoy the quality of genuine products. However i have lived over 15 years in countries like Saudi Arabia (where many people are poor), Indonesia and India and seen first hand and at some length the desperate situation many people are living. It literally makes one's heart ache. Most of these people couldn't give a rats ass about protecting an American corporation's trademarks. Some countries' governments even openly contract the manufacture of counterfeit medicines as they can't afford western prices.
Hence this topic is deep and far reaching and definately requires more depth of understanding than to simply call them 'scum'. I would agree though that people who can afford genuine products really should buy genuine and they are just being cheapskates if they don't.
technodup
Senior Retro Guru
There's no 'arguably' about it.RadNomad":1h3mp6o6 said:
Not really the big brands problem.RadNomad":1h3mp6o6 said:
Tough shit. I want an Aston Martin but I won't be getting one this year. When I earn it I deserve it and it'll feel great because I worked hard for it. And I won't be getting a replica in the meantime because a) it would be shit and b) I would feel an absolute cock for kidding anyone on I was in the real thing. We know Africa is poor. The people are poor. I've been. And the fake Benetton shirts didn't convince me otherwise.RadNomad":1h3mp6o6 said:
Not directly. But if brand image is tainted by jakes wearing them... see Burberry in the 90s.RadNomad":1h3mp6o6 said:
If it's a lack of awareness, education or marketing in 'developing' countries that's fair enough (to a point). But anyone in the UK, USA etc don't have the same excuse. They're 'benefiting' off the back of others' labour and investment. I don't think parasites is too strong.RadNomad":1h3mp6o6 said:
I understand perfectly well.
