£94m but no change in attitude.....?

Similarly, I know of one dead cyclist who fell under a car on Deansgate in Manchester, due to a pedestrian stepping out in front of the bike, knocking the rider into the path of the traffic behind.....

so by that token, its not just drivers that need educating or training, as I say its EVERYONE.
Pedstrians for being more aware and less stupd,
Cyclists to be less aggressive and automatically blaming the driver, have better road sense and taking more secure road positions
Drivers to be less aggressive and automatically blame the cyclist, and give vulnerable road users more respect


G
 
unkleGsif":33fxt3or said:
Cyclists to be less aggressive and automatically blaming the driver.....

And a perfect example of this would be in the deathwish thread recently where AndyR said that having hung back whilst following 2 roadies on a climb in a narrow country lane, then being given the "wave to pass" only to find a car coming towards him... then getting an earful by the cyclist for not coming past :facepalm:


Andy R":33fxt3or said:
On my way back from work yesterday in my van I was driving (slowly and cautiously) up a narrow (single track) tarmac climb and caught up with two road cyclists, a man and a woman, both resplendent in their "MT" (Manx Telecom) team kit. As we were on a long right-hand bend and I couldn't see past, I just considerately sat about 10 metres behind them and waited for better visibility.

The woman, who was at the back, just kept waving me through and shouted "overtake then, if you want!". Thinking that maybe she had better visibility around the bend than me, I crept past her, only to be met with a car coming down the hill......

As I dropped back I said to her (through my open nearside window) that was the very reason I hadn't overtaken them earlier. I just got given the finger and told to "F**k off".......
 
We could all be forced to re read the highway code and be tested on it a regular intervals. The rules already exist but few stick to them to the letter and tough enforcement doesn't happen.

Now the nights are fair drawin' in I'd better dust down my lights, dig out the dayglow yellow and start observing my fellow road users with intensity again. Principally it's me whose keeping me alive out there.

Chopper has many a good point !
 
Chopper1192":36rec8yc said:
But our own house is in a mess too, and as a group we could do so much to help our selves - a parallel "use lights at night, don't RLJ, stay off the path and don't filter against the kerb" campaign would be equally beneficial.

But the problem is, we are not a group, just as drivers aren't. Most that do those things you state would not consider themselves cyclists, but people that use bikes, and there is no talking to them either.
 
isn't part of that being Amsterdam having waterways and not lending itself to wide roads and traffic and people keeping cycling and the take up of the car post war being slower, its a long time since cycled there, guessing they don't have all the attitude problem with RLJ etc ? or should we eat lots of "cake" :D
 
Pyro Tim":163ma4he said:
Chopper1192":163ma4he said:
But our own house is in a mess too, and as a group we could do so much to help our selves - a parallel "use lights at night, don't RLJ, stay off the path and don't filter against the kerb" campaign would be equally beneficial.

But the problem is, we are not a group, just as drivers aren't. Most that do those things you state would not consider themselves cyclists, but people that use bikes, and there is no talking to them either.

This is a good point, well made. Whilst no doubt, it's a good thing to try and set and encourage good standards - I try and do this when behind the wheel of a car, when driving in the vicinity of cyclists - there really isn't so much a coherent group.

Best practice and singing kumbaya around a campfire ain't going to cut it - compulsion will. Just like things like drink-driving and speeding / "safety" cameras. There was no warm, happy, comforting consideration and consultation period, it's compliance or punishment. I have no issue with that applying to cyclists and RLJ or other dangerous activities, too.

The fact of the matter is, though, this is no time to get people on-board with empathy - because it's a big, fat, hairy crock - it won't work. The people who need targetting just simply won't have ears for it.
 
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