BoTM July '13 - Muddy Fox vs Orange vs Saracen - Vote Now

Re: BoTM July '13 - Muddy Fox vs Orange vs Saracen - Vote No

We_are_Stevo said:

...does it really matter if a frame was hand rolled on the thigh of some dusky maiden in the Equatorial Americas or some little guy in a sweat stained t-shirt and forage cap in the middle of an Asian rain forest?

/quote]

Yes.
Bikes are a passion. I like them all. Some I like more.

I could care less what car I drive as long as it starts cold and bakes the balonies. No doubt car enthusiasts would look at my little 4 cylinder station wagon and be indifferent. That is ok by me though because cars are not something I care too much about.

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Re: BoTM July '13 - Muddy Fox vs Orange vs Saracen - Vote No

We_are_Stevo":3iboqrok said:

...does it really matter if a frame was hand rolled on the thigh of some dusky maiden

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Bloomin Engineers! Lack of understanding of basic human physiology

Nice thought though :twisted:

Re: BoTM July '13 - Muddy Fox vs Orange vs Saracen - Vote No

Ductape":40gyew0e said:

drcarlos":40gyew0e said:

Ductape":40gyew0e said:

It is interestig that with all the Mountain bikes built in Asia, there has never been a big following for any specific asian Mtb builder (person not company).
Different culture.

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Muddyfox and Orange were both designed and distributed in the the UK, much like Specialized and Marin are designed in the US and built in the far east, I think they both have a decent following.

Carl.

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The brand yes but I was implying specifically a persons name.
Look at all the bikes represented on Retrobike and the vast majority were made in Asia. Now name one Asian MTB frame builers name from BITD.
We can rattle off the names of U.S. and U.K. frame builders with very little effort.
A few of those dudes must have had the desire to get of the factory line and start their own custom Mtb frame making shop.

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Whilst I enjoy 'craftsman' produced products as much as the next man, the handful of 'names' past and present only ever turned out a tiny percentage of the lines to bear their name; as soon as the 'hobby' industry grew wings and took flight they were all hawking their wares around the Far Eastern manufacturers to get the best reproduction at the cheapest unit rates to maximise their returns...

...and why not?

Re: BoTM July '13 - Muddy Fox vs Orange vs Saracen - Vote No

Archemist":20k36mx9 said:

You could buy a £400 Saracen (which TBH was a big fat chunk of money in '8 or something "handmade" for 4 times as much and be at least 1% faster.
....

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We are that small percentage willing to go for that extra little bit! Thats wy we hang out on geeky bicycle forums.

BITD my first three frames were mass produced in Asia. It's number four I fondly remember though. There were no big gains with the extra cash spent, but it was pure bliss.

Re: Rebn2: BoTM July '13 - Muddy Fox vs Orange vs Saracen -

drcarlos":1kls9dbo said:

The Saracens were different and were mostly handbuilt in the UK in Warwickshire and the Conquests and Kilis that you see here certainly fit that description and I also think the Trekker was too.

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I thought that once the initial link up with F W Evans was dropped all Saracens were fabricated in the Far East and then assembled (hand built) in the uk - clever marketing long Orange and MF!

In this way Saracen was actually similar to Orange in that they were a uk brand, designed and assembled in the UK.

Re: BoTM July '13 - Muddy Fox vs Orange vs Saracen - Vote No

Mr Panda":34aqy2xh said:

We_are_Stevo":34aqy2xh said:

...does it really matter if a frame was hand rolled on the thigh of some dusky maiden

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Bloomin Engineers! Lack of understanding of basic human physiology

Nice thought though :twisted:

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I was going to say 'tube set' hence the rolling (don't start on extruding, it's far too late for those kind of euphemisms!) but I was typing on my phone and just couldn't be *rsed with the aggro of trying to get the jumpy little edit window to actually go where I wanted it!

Plus which I rather foolishly sliced off the tip of my left thumb the other day whilst removing a recalcitrant bar end plug so my dexterity is currently not what it was! :roll:

As for the 'resto' aspect towards old tat we were glad to see the back off (much like the 70's as a whole...) at the time; I do like old cars, particularly Morris Minors, but I wouldn't want one restored to just off the production line condition!

My last Moggy had a Ford 2 litre V4 under the bonnet and Wolfrace Slotmags and was Fun with a capital 'F'

I'm afraid I have the same attitude/approach to bikes, hence why you will never see any Deerhead kit on any of my bikes; it may have been brilliant at the time but so was the 'Hobby Horse...'

...and I don't want one o' them either!

Re: Rebn2: BoTM July '13 - Muddy Fox vs Orange vs Saracen -

nevadasmith":2wt9ylib said:

I thought that once the initial link up with F W Evans was dropped all Saracens were fabricated in the Far East and then assembled (hand built) in the uk - clever marketing long Orange and MF!

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Yup, they were all made in the Far East and, to quote the Saracen catalogue, hand assembled in Saracen's Warwickshire workshop. No British craftsmen were harmed in the making of a Saracen.

Re: BoTM July '13 - Muddy Fox vs Orange vs Saracen - Vote No

Haha glad I started something! (he says, overflowing with pride)

Realistically I know hand crafted shit means something but back in the day I didn't know what was hand crafted and what was made on a production line. And if it weren't for back in the day none of those would mean shit right??

Re: BoTM July '13 - Muddy Fox vs Orange vs Saracen - Vote No

Thing is, if it were not for mass production (which in those days still meant 'hand made' don't forget, just sheer weight of numbers in the form of cheap labour...) the majority of us would still be riding around on lugged steel frames!

Re: BoTM July '13 - Muddy Fox vs Orange vs Saracen - Vote No

3 cheers for the mediocre, without them we'd all still be riding mediocre bikes!!


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