Raleigh Royal with (I think) a dodgy provenance.

This frame has been lurking around the 'bay for quite some time, and I'm suspicious: here's why -

1. Raleigh Royal (tourer) first introduced in 1987 (identified by the engraved seatstay caps).
2. There has been an attempt to make it look like a much older frame, Reynolds decals are wrong for the year of frame, they're much earlier, and the forks are round forks that I date 1945-1955.
3. The Raleigh top tube cable guides are cruder than those that would have been on the frame when new.

Why are these things problems...well the seller is using a name from the frame builder's hall of fame, and that is Bill Hurlow(and Mal Rees). The seller implies that Bill Hurlow rebuilt this frame: I don't see it, there is nothing on this frameset that isn't Raleigh apart from what I've mentioned above.

And why would BH mess about with a rather average Raleigh frame anyway? I would be very surprised. Given the price being asked for a frame not worth more than half that asking price I'd like to see the provenance online. Also, you could buy a genuine BH frame for no more than that asking price!

Bill Hurlow also passed away a while ago, Mal Rees even longer ago (I'm deliberately not revealing when for obvious reasons).

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 1004974831

Rk.

Yep, this has cropped up on my e-bay searches for some considerable time now. I just dismissed it as a complete tissue of lies.

The BIN used to be £650-£600 and has dropped slowly but still hopelessly overpriced.

Not sure what can be done apart from ask the seller to post pictures of invoices etc tp prove provenance?

Shaun

I meant to add I have sent a mail to the seller (via fleabay email).

No reply as yet (1315 hrs today the 12th July).

Roadking.

26 watchers and 4 offers...am I missing something?

Rhetorical question.

Jon.

I have this frame listed on my site and a prospective buyer has drawn my attention to this thread. To say that I’m annoyed is an understatement that how you can post this miss information is beyond me.

First of all I did reply to Roadking on the 12th of July so that part is un-true.

I’m selling this frame for John Wild (80) he was given this frame by Morris Crow (84) a member of the Thanet RC. The president was Bill Hurlow they were both friends of Bill for 50 years. John visited him in hospital before he died so sadly we do know when he died. I’ve just come back from Johns after going through your thread and he’s not happy.

Morris and John have raced, toured and been on many club runs with Bill. John worked with Bill at Condor starting in 1955. You will see a photograph of one of the first Condors built by WBH, John Wilds (5551) & Bill had one the same.

The Raleigh frame was bought by Morris and he asked WBH to do the alterations, the forks were built by WBH and are the same as the forks on a Mal Rees Ramales 1967 and also the yellow frame in the photographs 1965. So old forks 1945 to 1955 debunked. By the way John designed the logo for Mal Lee’s bikes (see original artwork), so he does know when he died. The cable guides were altered and the back triangle re-configured see the yellow frame almost the same.

You seem to of missed the point, it is what is and not meant to or pretend to be anything else. It is one mans instructions to a frame builder who happens to be WBH.

Both John & Morris can confirm the above and letter will go with the sale of the frame.

Shaun ‘tissue of lies’ shame on you

http://s19.postimg.org/jhr0go1pv/S1033956.jpg

http://s19.postimg.org/j3poh2hmb/S1033957.jpg

http://s19.postimg.org/jf74tty2b/S1033955.jpg

http://s19.postimg.org/9tdkdj6wj/S1033958.jpg