My mid fifties Claud Butler, date?

dpuboc · Feb 1, 2012

Hi Fixed wheel nut,
I'm a forum newbie so my image of my CB BB may not be visible.

It clearly shows two sets of numbers. The first is the frame number and the second is the Date. Yr/Mth 5411 is Nov 1954.
Yours is September 1955.

Congratulations it the right side of the Holdsworth takeover.

The afore mentioned catalogue site will give you all the correct part options.
Expect a budget of £300 less if you're patient and have time ( the educational route), More if you're in a hurry. Start with Hillary Stone.
best wishes Diarmuid.

roadking · Feb 1, 2012

Quite easy to identify, there weren't that many fillet-brazed models in the CB lineup.

Rk.

freddie grubb · Mar 7, 2013

looking to id my butler ........at least i think its a butler

its got serial number "1928" (possibly B) on the bb as well as number "0" stamped . there is also stamping on the top part of downtube "butler "19++" possibly "1949" i stripped it back to raw steel and lacquered coating and noticed this stamping.....

its fillet brazed , has a benelux downtube gear braze on and some spearpoint business on the top of seat tube . rear stays are gradual slim and very pointed drop outs with a mech hanger .

sadly someone filed off all the braze on parts apart from benelux gear shifter hanger .

any help would be great thanks !

freddie grubb · Mar 7, 2013

torqueless · Mar 8, 2013

Can't help with ID, but I really like these old naked Clauds... single-speed, LF hubs, Campag(esque) chainset, Mafacs.. my favourite brakes, and levers, apart from the adjusters... don't have to be gold...they go with the brazing though here.

WTF happened to this combination of steep(ish) head-tube angle and laid back seat-tube angle, along with fork bend that doesn't start until three quarters the way down? I wish my bike had such angles... it would save me all kinds of f*%king around...

I'll bring my own saddle, like in the old days... (Don't worry.. not really!)

Old Ned · Mar 8, 2013

Lugless fillet brazed CB frame quite possibly built by Bill Grey who seemed to be a specialist in this method of construction. Very clean and smooth joints like on my Dave Russell which is one of his from a lot later (1973).

Frame angles in those days generally seem to be 73 head/71 seat or - if you were really daring - 74 head/72 seat. Sitting further back was the norm for general riding although time triallists tended to have the saddle positioned far forward. 72/72 seems to appear in the 50's/60's and 73/73 came in in the 60's and 70's with a smattering of 74/74 and even 75/75 in very extreme cases (I had a TT frame in the 80's built like this). Fork shape is often dictated by fashion, the critical dimension affecting handling is the offset which is independent to the shape.

freddie grubb · Mar 8, 2013

i had silver mafacs but they were a bit scratched up , the gold ones were mint (until i came off in the snow) , rebuilt the wheels with mavic ma40 /campag nuovo record , cranks are andel , saddle is not a brooks i know but i am happy with that . i can park it up and not worry too much about the saddle being nicked

torqueless":34eylcnu said:
Can't help with ID, but I really like these old naked Clauds... single-speed, LF hubs, Campag(esque) chainset, Mafacs.. my favourite brakes, and levers, apart from the adjusters... don't have to be gold...they go with the brazing though here.

WTF happened to this combination of steep(ish) head-tube angle and laid back seat-tube angle, along with fork bend that doesn't start until three quarters the way down? I wish my bike had such angles... it would save me all kinds of f*%king around...

I'll bring my own saddle, like in the old days... (Don't worry.. not really!)

freddie grubb · Mar 8, 2013

thanks ned , good to know . a mystery frame from 40s or 50s . its a lovely ride though am a bit stretched out .

Old Ned":2m1bl5q2 said:
Lugless fillet brazed CB frame quite possibly built by Bill Grey who seemed to be a specialist in this method of construction. Very clean and smooth joints like on my Dave Russell which is one of his from a lot later (1973).

Frame angles in those days generally seem to be 73 head/71 seat or - if you were really daring - 74 head/72 seat. Sitting further back was the norm for general riding although time triallists tended to have the saddle positioned far forward. 72/72 seems to appear in the 50's/60's and 73/73 came in in the 60's and 70's with a smattering of 74/74 and even 75/75 in very extreme cases (I had a TT frame in the 80's built like this). Fork shape is often dictated by fashion, the critical dimension affecting handling is the offset which is independent to the shape.

My mid fifties Claud Butler, date?

dpuboc

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