is this a "wind up" ?????

NeilM":246sdr0w said:

It's going to be hard to put this without sounding like a racist xenophobe,

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It's going to be hard to put this without someone accusing you of being a racist xenophobe. That's entirely different.

NeilM":246sdr0w said:

but why should immigrants be entitled to benefits.

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They shouldn't.

Slightly off topic but I met a Spanish guy in the street recently asking for work, which I was happy to give him. He's since done more for us but as it is ad hoc at best he's now taken a kitchen porter job 200 miles away in Aberdeen.

That's two jobs he's done which could (some would say should) be done by a local. But the nature and location and timing isn't attractive to the feckless (proven by the taunts said feckless shout whilst doing the first job).

Answer seems simple enough to me.

Properly controlled borders to prevent stowaways on trucks etc.
No benefits for first 5 years if non national.
Most importantly compel the unemployed to find work with proper sanctions if they refuse. Aberdeen is a rich city but there are jobless there and that KP post could have been done by a local.
Points type system to attract/control foreign workers with skills we actually need/want.

The Spanish guy is a teacher, not here for benefits, speaks quite poor English and has found several jobs in just four weeks. If our unemployed were as driven and industrious maybe we would be a less attractive option for immigrants in general?

It is said we need immigrants to do the poorly paid work, fruit picking, food processing etc. While I have no problem with those who do come to work I can't help think those jobs should be offered (or rather forced upon) resident jobless first.

The biggest problem with uncontrolled immigration is not suprisingly the immigrants but also those who employ them of which most are uk based employers.

One of my recent locations was in Wisbech..known by the locals of Wisbechiztan. sit on a bench in the high street and you will see why. The local economy is mostly factory (purina, del monte, shire sheds etc) and of all the big companies almost all use agencies. The agencies as most who have worked for them, are leeches of human scum who pray on those immigrants and ..certianly in wisbech..actively discriminate against uk citizens because immigrant workers are cheaper

surely they must pay the minimum wage at least? well they mostly do but many of the immigrants need transport to the jobs so have to pay for that, some use accomodation arranged or owned by the agencies so they have to pay for that so by the time the agency actually pays the people, often it is far less than the minimum wage that ends up in their wage packet.

we also have a number of factories who actively descriminate in favour of economic immigrants with one local company..a meat processors and no not horse..declaring they have a 85% non uk born workforce. They claim uk kids coming through these days only want to win the xfactor or be a footballer with huge money and facebook updates all the time and as a whole are unreliable for attendance and workrate.

A lot of that is true, a lot of our kids display the pattern of consumer rather than producer but that is not the case for all kids.

It's easy to blame the immigrants but there are two groups we should be blaming

The government because it agreed to open borders and to be ruled by europe in a way that allows far more to be taken out than put in, puts huge drains on local economies, has seen a rise in tb , schools closing because of funds not being avaliable to all areas because the big towns are spending millions on catering for non english speaking students etc

and employers who openly discriminate against uk citizens whilst at the same time taking advantage of the immigrants

another problem we have in this country is a lot of people around where i live simply live off benefits.
and i'm talking about english people.
i have always worked but find i'm worse off at times than the benefit receivers.

I have mentioned a lot of the above before, but get branded a racist for having a view about numbers v services :roll: .

I see the UK like a dinning room table where more and more people climb onto to eat, inc our not willing to work long term unemployed too..............i see that table as not having any more room at it at this present time.

I think they should stop imigration unless you have work waiting for you already that is legal and you will not be exploited and where you pay tax.

If you can't get work, go back home until you can arrange legal work. Otherwise what's the point ?

If the above steps created more available ' start your first ' job for the unemployed youth of the UK, then offer this work to them or reduce/stop their benefits till they take it.

I think we should allow certain asylum seekers into the UK. They are the ones that really need the help.



So i'll risk being called a racist again for having a view on imigration.

Look at it this way, would the uk have so many migrant workers if the british public weren't too arrogant to do the menial jobs ? Or so greedy that they charged well above the going rate

Thing is every time I come back to see my mates or family I hear '**** polish or **** whatever, coming over here and taking our jobs'. Just remeber this, it was the greed, arrogance and lack pride of the british public and companies that caused the current wave of immigration.

I know quite a few people who have been on the dole for a long time because, 'I'm not cleaning bogs for a living' or £8 an hour ? Piss off I ain't working for that.

The building trades ended charging disproportionate amounts for the work, when a buch of blokes turned up and said 'we'll work for half what these guys do' all the big contractors jumped at it, a way to halve your labour bill and make even more money because you're charging your client the old rate.
I knew plumbers and sparks that were charging £70 an hour, I don't care what anyone says that is taking the piss. What is wrong for a resonable wage and being happy in your work, why go for as much as you can possibly screw out of the client ? I saw people coming out of college and only being in the trade because 'I'm gonna be paid shitloads mate' never choose a career on the strength of how much it pays, you'll be unhappy at work.

Look at the NHS, how many nurses of non british origin ? Because, instead of being a respected and well paid job as it should be, it's called a 'calling' or 'vocation' words which allow people to be paid a pittance and treated like shit.

I've worked on more building sites than you can shake a stick at, my old man was a builder, my grandfather and uncles were carpenters, from the age of 11 instead of having time off on school holidays I had to work for my dad making tea, sweeping up etc, by the age of 14 I could fit a kitchen. I saw the total decline of the english manual trades. We used to work like dogs and english tradesmen were in demand and respected worldwide. The whole 'loadsamoney' era and making as fast a buck as possible and screw everyone else killed it, you could also say that 'easy outs' like battery drills and portable mitre saws played their part too.

Pride: Whatever you think about the french at least they are proud of their country for better or worse. When the people came to france looking for work the french response was, 'you are more than welcome to stay, open a business and contribute to the economy we have no problem with that but we're very sorry we don't want to pay you half, we'd rather employ a frenchman thanks'.


Discuss

Put simply........we have Polish freinds, they both work ,have children, pay tax and spend most of thier money in the UK like us.........good.

I used to work with a Polish lady who went back to Poland to claim working tax credits as her husband had been working in the UK for some time..........so she had a job and deliberatly gave it up (she told me why) to receive UK cash back in Poland...........bad

So nothing to do with race, but to do with 'where the cash goes' and what economy it is spent in.

i suspect that the amount the goverment recive in tax from hard working immigrants and foreign bussines far outweighs thouse claming benifits and thats why they are not in any hurry to sought out the "problem"

GT-Steve":1mlurnpm said:

If you can't support yourself financially, don't come to these shores.

End of.

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This has been quoted a couple of times but how about the difference between political and economic refugees.

My wife was born in Saigon. My in laws were well off before the war and her father was an officer in South Vietnamese army. After the war they eventually got papers to uk and flew here. They arrived with what they could carry in early 80s. On arrival they received a lot of help, but all 3 kids went to university or med school having worked hard. They gave up council house to move elsewhere. All pay tax etc etc having come here to escape persecution after fighting for democracy and all that good stuff. They have contributed more net to uk than a lot of people born here who don't support themselves financially and are generations of unemployed or on benefits. Maybe some people deserve a break and have something to offer.

Alot of good points made here by all..but the same issues need to be addressed..

1. "dont hate the player..hate the game".. if our Government wont change the rules..it will get worse..if the government can change pensions /terms and conditions to 100,000 civil servants suerly they can adjust the benefit system so it cant be mis used by so called migrant workers who come here just for benefits

2. We have our own :x lazy scroates :x who wont do certain jobs as they get more just by signing on

3. migrant workers come here to work and do the jobs our "lazy scroates" wont do

4. then this creates a problem for those uk nationals who want to work are competeing with migrant workers who are just as skilled

Again thanks to all

Ernie

i find it hard to believe that anyone would come here "just for the benefits". ive had far more foreign employers than british ones and they have treated me far better than the british ones. most of them came here with nothing and unable to support themselves but worked their arse off to live a better life.