ScillySuffolk
Retro Guru
That's very useful to know: many thanks!
1950s Claud Butler
- Thread starter ScillySuffolk
- Start date
ScillySuffolk
Retro Guru
I've been for a look (crap photos here) and was on the cusp of closing the deal, but I'm not going to browbeat a nice old boy over a bike, so we shall see how the auction goes...
He is the second owner from new and took it touring round France with his Wife, so it's seen some action.
Under the thick layers of paint, the date appears to be September 1954, so I will have another look through the catalogues.
It's fundamentally very sound and I'd guess the Il Primo bars & stem are original, as are the GB Coureur calipers.
The levers are Weinmann, shifter Shimano and derailleur Hacon: of these I have no idea.
He is the second owner from new and took it touring round France with his Wife, so it's seen some action.
Under the thick layers of paint, the date appears to be September 1954, so I will have another look through the catalogues.
It's fundamentally very sound and I'd guess the Il Primo bars & stem are original, as are the GB Coureur calipers.
The levers are Weinmann, shifter Shimano and derailleur Hacon: of these I have no idea.
Robbied196
Senior Retro Guru
If memory serves me right, I think it would have had a Benelux derailleur originally. I'm pretty sure I have a PDF of the Jubilee catalogue if you've not got it. Its got details of the original spec, if you drop me your email I'll route it out tonight and send it over 
ScillySuffolk
Retro Guru
I'm the only person to have viewed it, so hopefully it won't get bought by a "stripper" and split-up.
I'll drop you a line for the .PDF, thanks.
I suspected the mech. might not be original, but a Hacon is a rare bird too: I've been unable to find out anything about it, or Il Primo for that matter.
I'll drop you a line for the .PDF, thanks.
I suspected the mech. might not be original, but a Hacon is a rare bird too: I've been unable to find out anything about it, or Il Primo for that matter.
The Il Primo stem was a cheap Holdsworthy own make heavy iron item a bit later than the frame, also the chainwheel and crank has had a lot of wear but would not have been on an original CB. It could have been built progressively from retail components because of the purchase tax, (no tax on parts) See if you can find "Il Primo" in the old "Aids" catalogues.
ScillySuffolk
Retro Guru
That's interesting, because the Il Primo stem and bars are clearly intended to appear Italian. The badge on the stem says "Il Primo Milano" and the bars are marked Giro Di Sicilia.
I assume "Holdsworthy" is the same as the Holdsworth who bought the CB name, as I've also found references to their "Riders' Aids" catalogues: why the two names?
The current owner bought it in the early Seventies from the original owner who had bought it as a teenager. I haven't positively identified it yet so I can't confirm how it differs from the OE, but it makes a nice story to imagine this kid saving up his pocket money and poring over brochures.
I assume "Holdsworthy" is the same as the Holdsworth who bought the CB name, as I've also found references to their "Riders' Aids" catalogues: why the two names?
The current owner bought it in the early Seventies from the original owner who had bought it as a teenager. I haven't positively identified it yet so I can't confirm how it differs from the OE, but it makes a nice story to imagine this kid saving up his pocket money and poring over brochures.
Il Primo (I sold loads of them) was a low end heavy item made in UK (you could tell by the chrome) for the Holdsworthy Company who were wholesalers and importers and bought several redundant names. Plenty of history on line. The company was The Holdsworthy Company, never Holdsworth, and were importers of Campagnolo, Fiamme, etc.
These stems sold for about £1 when the Cinelli were £1.50.
Remember when Dixons invented a Japanese sounding name for their cheap line electronics.
They made quite decent good value frames in their own little sweat shop, look up the history.
Back in the 1960's my little shop had a higher turnover with them than any other in the south of england.
These stems sold for about £1 when the Cinelli were £1.50.
Remember when Dixons invented a Japanese sounding name for their cheap line electronics.
They made quite decent good value frames in their own little sweat shop, look up the history.
Back in the 1960's my little shop had a higher turnover with them than any other in the south of england.
ScillySuffolk
Retro Guru
I'm not doubting what you say Keith, I was just remarking on the marketing: it's one thing to suggest an Italian origin with an Italian sounding name (Il Primo), but quite another to mark them "Milano"; not far short using "Made In Italy"!
Similarly I defer to your knowledge of Holdsworthy, but you can understand my confusion when the Classic Rendezvous and Classic Lightweights pages are both titled "Holdsworth" and "Holdsworthy" is only obliquely mentioned once.
Only this page that I have now found (which is itself titled "W. F. Holdsworth...") explains the creation of "a new separate company" called The Holdsworthy Factoring Company Ltd in 1939.
It's obviously not your experience, but it seems that whilst the Holdsworth name has remained in circulation (no doubt because their frames are highly regarded), Holdsworthy has slipped into the background somewhat.
Similarly I defer to your knowledge of Holdsworthy, but you can understand my confusion when the Classic Rendezvous and Classic Lightweights pages are both titled "Holdsworth" and "Holdsworthy" is only obliquely mentioned once.
Only this page that I have now found (which is itself titled "W. F. Holdsworth...") explains the creation of "a new separate company" called The Holdsworthy Factoring Company Ltd in 1939.
It's obviously not your experience, but it seems that whilst the Holdsworth name has remained in circulation (no doubt because their frames are highly regarded), Holdsworthy has slipped into the background somewhat.
