CIOCC San Cristobal - Tom Crowther

krankers":100awejo said:

I live about a mile from where crowthers was. Used to love peering in through the windows on a Sunday. Its now a chippy

Lovely bike btw!

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Also, the cut outs are definitely either Ciocc or Ciocc style. The main distinguishing of Ciocc is the 4 aces cut on the down tube lug.

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fiks":3oi825iu said:

Also, the cut outs are definitely either Ciocc or Ciocc style. The main distinguishing of Ciocc is the 4 aces cut on the down tube lug.

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Err...your frame doesn't have this shape of cutout on the lug, only on the bb shell. So the only thing that could possibly connect your frame to Ciocc is the bb cutout, which could have used by other builders.

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Robbied196":2qzx6uy4 said:

fiks":2qzx6uy4 said:

Also, the cut outs are definitely either Ciocc or Ciocc style. The main distinguishing of Ciocc is the 4 aces cut on the down tube lug.

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Err...your frame doesn't have this shape of cutout on the lug, only on the bb shell. So the only thing that could possibly connect your frame to Ciocc is the bb cutout, which could have used by other builders.

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The only lug cut out I've seen on Ciocc's is on the headtube/downtube lug, not a great photo, but on mine its painted white in the last pic. The 4 spades as with Ray Dobbins San Cristobal http://www.raydobbins.com/ciocc/photos/photo25.html

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Robbied196":29bgp8va said:

Just stumbled upon another CIOCC, this time a Roy Thame. As Little Al said, it definitely looks like some CIOCC frames escaped

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261090925052? ... 1423.l2649

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Little Al":gbjqd4vo said:

Robbied196":gbjqd4vo said:

Just stumbled upon another CIOCC, this time a Roy Thame. As Little Al said, it definitely looks like some CIOCC frames escaped

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261090925052? ... 1423.l2649

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A bit of an up date, came across one of my old books from the pro days[ listing gear ratio`s for different stages in races etc.] & came across an entry that jogged my memory At that time there was a 2nd div regional team in France that were part sponsored by the shop that gave us bits, & the 3 or 4 best riders were fitted up with the unbadged Ciocc`s at the time their primary sponsor was Alfa Lavel [makers of milking equipment so the frames got badged Alfa Lavel]IIRC a couple years later they were sponsored by Fangio the furniture manufactures but the frames then were Vitus 979`s badged Fangio. Doesn`t solve your problem but sheds light as to what took place

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fiks":1sex5pne said:

Sorry, now that I've looked at your lug again, because the photo is not clear, I thought it has a different cutout.

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