Did I just buy a Carlton...?

I really should have deleted my ebay saved search after buying a Carlton Cobra earlier this month, coz I've gone and bought this in a moment of lunacy:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261089544861

After buying it, I naturally assumed I'd just been stupid.. It's been resprayed, so it could be anything! Is it really 531 tubing (the seller said the seat tube diameter was 29mm)? Why doesn't it have wrap around seat stays? Why do the lugs look different to the usual Carltons? Why does the serial number seem to be missing the second digit? Time to hunt!

After much sifting through photos of Carltons and Raleighs, I've concluded that the lugs are either Oscar Egg or Prugnat 62A. If they're Oscar Egg, it could be a 1958 Carlton, but the serial number is all wrong for that decade, so they're probably Prugnat 62As from the 70s.

The serial number is W ? 4000429. I don't know if the second digit has been obscured, of if it simply was never there. If it's obscured, that makes it a 74 bike (same age as me!). If it was never there.. then I have no idea! :?

Squinting at Spokesmann's catalogue scans (http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=110238), the Carlton Ten looks like it doesn't have wrap-around seat stays. Hunting for photos on the interweb returns photos of '74 Tens with both wrap-arounds and normal seat stays. Weird! :shock:

The only 74 Raleigh I can find with Prugnat 62A lugs is the Super Course MkII (the Competition MkII supposedly has them, but they look different).

Sooo.. it could be a 1974 Carlton Ten, but if the Ten could come with two types of seat stay, then maybe others did, too? At least it looks like it is indeed a Carlton-built, 531-tubed frame.

Has anyone else got any thoughts?

To my eye that all sits right with it being a Carlton. Although, as you pointed out it could be a Raleigh built at Worksop. IIRC they used the over BB cable guide until mid-70's then changed to the better (and cheaper) under BB guide, along with an under-chain stay rear mech cable guide.

The lugs look very much like the ones on my wife's Continental, but less fancy (hers has cut outs). Hers doesn't have the wrap around stays either, but ones the same as yours.

£59 is about the right price for that frame.

Possibly a Carlton pro am derivative with a fork boss ? over the years they made so many frames and bikes I lost count by the mid 70's LOL

Shaun

Tens did have two types of stay, depending on the year and tubing. 531 did NOT have wrap around, Truewell did.

You may find this

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=175240&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

and this

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=193995&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

useful.....

I am now sure mine is a Ten, as i found the correct colour on the steerer tube.

Dave

must admit i looked at that frame too , but got to many on the waiting list already .

as long as you happy thats all that counts

oh, I am happy - I just wanted to make sure I hadn't paid way too much for it! It's also nice to know what it once was.

If it is a Ten, it's a shame it's lost the old paintwork - the orange and green was luuuuverly! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sweens308/2745736061/ looks nice, but not going ss with mine)

Getting a two-colour respray is way beyond my means, but I think I'll try to get it done in the same shade of orange or green.. I'm veering towards the green at the mo!

I first glance a later era Carlton, if indeed it is. Much plainer lugs. A clsoe inspection for frame number will give away more info. Looks nice all the same though.

Piperdave":3h7v1y2j said:

I am now sure mine is a Ten, as i found the correct colour on the steerer tube.

Click to expand...

Aye - I saw your post when I was trying to find pics of Tens, and your bike inspired my choice of rear mech and shifters. I never knew such things existed before I saw yours!

I totally underestimated the cost of buying bike components.. Total cost of the project so far is £220 (half of it on wheels), and that's not including a respray/powder coat or a saddle. I think I'll have to either live with the blue for a bit, or investigate DIY paint jobs!

It's worth it, of course.. I'm just not sure my partner will agree. :roll:

I got the frame yesterday evening!

I peered in every hole I could find, but no sign of any colour other than blue. I haven't gotten the BB out yet, so there might be some in there, but I doubt it. It looks like the fork might've been chrome plated, however, as the chrome seems to be peeking out where the paint's worn. It could just be very shiny metal, however...

I've got a problem, though. It looks like there's a crack just under the seat lug, leading off of the gap in the tube. It's only about 5mm long, but I think these things tend to grow. :?

Here's a couple of pics of it:
Outside: http://www.flickr.com/photos/spatuluk/7981992167/
Inside: http://www.flickr.com/photos/spatuluk/7981996096/

Is that something I should worry about? Is there anything I can do to fix it, other than replacing the tube? (I assume that'd cost more than it cost me to buy the bike)

That's been over tightened.

Get a small drill bit and drill a hole where the crack ends, that'll sort it out in the short term.

If you are planning on having the frame painted, once it is stripped get the crack ground out and a bead of weld down it.

It's not in a place that would be dangerous, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.