This frame might be an Alec Bird but is NOT a Carlton!

Midlife":10td7hdj said:

Victor seat cluster was a Shot in design and not a fastback, that's how I read it.

http://www.carltoncycles.me.uk/mybikes/66giro.htm

The fastback frame with horizontal dropouts is a bit of a mix for the OP's frame as track frames usually had widely spaced seat stays at the seat cluster for maximum strength........ all in all an unusual mix of features.

Shaun

having typed the above found a track frame on Hilary Stone with fastback..typical LOL

http://hilarystone.com/images/sale%20im ... s-2000.jpg

Click to expand...

One argument against the USA Carlton/Raleigh connection is the likelihood of the frame crossing the 'pond' twice?...more likely is AB or someone other bought a set and incorporated into this frame.

It is interesting that the owner of the frame descibed it as 531c.....but if you notice the 2008 pic there was no 531 decal...so either word of mouth or inaccuracy.....AB did make frames in the 1960s and likely after Carlton closed in 1981.

Shaun....from a cryptic Zeus 2000 mention in the HS link...i found it on his website....same time frame as mine being 1970s-1980s and 531 double butted.

The Carlton link has the T in the frame number which mine does not.

Midlife":39ucz9lc said:

Track frames and sloping crown forks don't go together

Shaun

Click to expand...

It depends on the intended use of the frame when bought. I knew guys BITD who ordered track frames to build into road going fixed wheel bikes and specced exactly that style of fork.

Sorry to add to the confusion,
Mark.

daccordimark":1pits15m said:

Midlife":1pits15m said:

Track frames and sloping crown forks don't go together

Shaun

Click to expand...

It depends on the intended use of the frame when bought. I knew guys BITD who ordered track frames to build into road going fixed wheel bikes and specced exactly that style of fork.

Sorry to add to the confusion,
Mark.

Click to expand...

Mark...ok..lets look for the positve....if lets say the semi sloping forks were the original forks [even though the guy who replaced assumed they were not the original forks might be wrong]....they were replaced because they were cracked.....When did semi-sloping fork crowns used in British frames?

I though sloping fork crowns came in the early 60's...

Shaun

OK...if semi-sloping crowns came in the 1960s...what about the fastback seatstays....though popular in the 1970s-80s...did they also come into UK frames in the 1960s?

sawston_vulcan":y7t5j6m9 said:

daccordimark":y7t5j6m9 said:

Midlife":y7t5j6m9 said:

Track frames and sloping crown forks don't go together

Shaun

Click to expand...

It depends on the intended use of the frame when bought. I knew guys BITD who ordered track frames to build into road going fixed wheel bikes and specced exactly that style of fork.

Sorry to add to the confusion,
Mark.

Click to expand...

Mark...ok..lets look for the positve....if lets say the semi sloping forks were the original forks [even though the guy who replaced assumed they were not the originalche might be wrong]....they were replaced because they were cracked.....When did semi-sloping fork crowns used in British frames?

Click to expand...

Perhaps I should add that my BITD was only the early 80s but the guys I'm thinking of probably bought their bikes in the 70s or even 60s. No idea when sloping fork crowns started appearing on British bikes.

I think the biggest positive to be taken from this thread is that you have a fabulous frame there regardless of the origin and the current forks suit it to a tee. I do understand your desire to find out "the truth" though.

Mark.

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/bu ... lders.html

According to classic lightweights the fastback started with the Grandini frame of the 60's

Shaun

It could indeed be a Carlton...the owner of the bike c2005-8 has contacted me...i have asked him for clarification...but when Dave Marsh returns from holiday i will get his opinion.....but awaiting a further message from the previous owner and will publish what he says....as it stands his message what not 100% clear.

Thanks Mark for your comments and i totally agree it is lovely...but i want to know as much as i can about her...to me a good frame has a personality and a life of its own.

E8049 was the frame number of Reg Harris' carlton track frame, it could be older than we think and date to the 60's when Carlton used to make individual frames to order.......

Shaun

As stated previously the EO is probably the makers stamp of the bottom bracket. Is the EO in a diamond shape? If it is, I've got the same on the bottom bracket of a Columbus tubed geared lo pro.

"529" doesn't look like a Carlton frame number to me, but I'm no expert.

Is there any confirmation that it had AB transfers on it before Mario Vaz resprayed it and found some transfers in his drawer?

Whatever it is, it looks very nice!