This frame might be an Alec Bird but is NOT a Carlton!

Lots of frames intended for road use were built with round forks even ones for gears. Amongst others, Harry Quinn built time trial frames with round forks. Even Alan aluminium frames have a round fork. Road/Path frames used for both time trialling and track use had round forks. I've never had any problem with a brake on a round fork and have one on my Carlton at present.

Yep, that's my Bob Jackson time trial frame, brazed on weinmann brakes as well

Strictly it's true that an oval fork will resist deflection better about it's long axis as sides of the fork blades are straight on to the applied load. However, that pales into insignificance against the deflection that occurs towards the ends of the fork as the tubing narrows and both road and track forks are round in that area.

As mentioned I have never had any brake problems, either with the Jackson or track bikes.

I've never found toe overlap a problem with any shortwheelbase bike I have ridden.

Shaun

Thanks Old Ned and Shaun.....along with Dave Moulton with SB the the dissenting voice....i am persuaded...i will run with the track forks.

BTW....is Alec Bird still alive?

Here is a pic of the fork crown and one of the whole frame.

Smart looking frame, nice lugs with a fastback angles still look fairly relaxed so will ride nice

Didn't Alec Bird have a bad bike accident ?

Shaun

Alec Bird

Hi.
You sure thats an Alec Bird only its got Carlton Capella lugs. It may well be but I thought those lugs where Carltons own.If someone knows different then please say as they may well be used by other companies and that is something I was not aware of
Regards
Peter

Lugs do look like capella and I thought of Carlton but the only models I could think of had either wrapover seatstays, seatstays at the side of the seat lug or shot in seatstays........

Shaun

Re: Alec Bird

half cog":wyo4hcuh said:

Hi.
You sure thats an Alec Bird only its got Carlton Capella lugs. It may well be but I thought those lugs where Carltons own. If someone knows different then please say as they may well be used by other companies and that is something I was not aware of
Regards
Peter

Click to expand...

In answer to you [Peter] and Shaun.....i bought this from LFGSS.. and the frame number 529....and 'EO' is also stamped on the BB...seat lug uses an AF 7/32'' AK.....Here is the thread: http://www.lfgss.com/thread82055.html

Is there any significance to the letters EO?

A few people because of the Capella lugs took it as a rebadged Carlton but not Saxby's contribution 'the Cappella lugs on the description made me think it probably just a re-badged Carlton but looking at the photo's that fork rake and rear wheel clearance is so typical of Alec Bird's builds, beautiful frame indeed.'

Perhaps it was a late AB frame....When did he stop making frames? When did Carlton stop making frames with Capella lugs?.....if the Carlton stopped before AB...Carlton might have sold their stock including their Capella lugs and according to what i know about AB he liked doing deals and might have got a good deal on Carlton frame building stock...just a theory.

But i recently 'had' a Holdsworth that really was a Claud Butler [a Holdsworthy CB]....so is it an AB?.....This one is a keeper as it is a perfect size for me!

I will research the Carlton link....i will call Dave Marsh...he worked at Carlton's...plus there are Carlton forums...which i will contact....and report back.

As I mentioned the frame is a bit of a conundrum in that it has Capella like Lugs but the rest does not add up to it being a Carlton, particularly the fastback seat stays.

Capella lugs came in about when I was born but were replaced by the crespera.......which held my first carlton together LOL

I worked in a bike shop in the 70's and there were a shed load of lugs hanging around in boxes and on shelves from god knows where LOL


Shaun

Midlife":1py6175m said:

As I mentioned the frame is a bit of a conundrum in that it has Capella like Lugs but the rest does not add up to it being a Carlton, particularly the fastback seat stays.

Capella lugs came in about when I was born but were replaced by the crespera.......which held my first carlton together LOL

I worked in a bike shop in the 70's and there were a shed load of lugs hanging around in boxes and on shelves from god knows where LOL


Shaun

Click to expand...

Carlton seized trading in 1981.....from a Carlton site the Capella lugs were used from 1958 to 1966...When did AB stop building frames [he is as far as i know, still alive]......the 531c decal is of the type used in 1984...3 years after Carlton closed down....so my theory of AB buying old Carlton stock is a plausible....Can anyone verify that?......Or is there a link between Carlton and AB?......Or are the lugs an AB copy of the Capella lug?

Not all Carlton's had wrapover seatstays but the shot in don't seem to fit with Carlton....am i right?

Track frame

Just to add further confusion ( sorry ) There are still odd sets of capella lugs knocking around. I have seen a couple of sets on e bay this year so it is perfectly possible that a builder could buy a set if he felt like producing an odd frame or two . carlton produced superb track frames so either way you have a very nice bike .If you google dating carltons there is a site with a list of date numbers and prefixes . Best of luck with it and keep us all posted
Regards
Peter