So you want a Charlie Cunningham Indian #1

As per previous post

http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/?page_id=3533

where did Breezer get his design idea from??


http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/?page_id=4946

early softail

http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/?page_id=3443

early cannondale 24/26

I tell all my friends this golden rule for bike buying and selling: why buy 1 bugatti when you can buy 10000000000 Yugos? Words to live by my friends. Words to live by.

klaw71":28jugjtb said:

As per previous post

http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/?page_id=3533

where did Breezer get his design idea from??


http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/?page_id=4946

early softail

http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/?page_id=3443

early cannondale 24/26

Click to expand...

Wow! many thank's for that fella, fascinating history from Coventry!

Russell":24805gsj said:

some stuff but not exactly useful stuff....

Click to expand...

Dr S":24805gsj said:

Its so much more than the frame material too. Look at a Cunningham compared to other contempory bikes and you will see so much innovation that we now take for granted...

Oversized thin wall tubing.

Geometry to suit off road riding rather than the slack 'Schwinn' inspired geo or geo nabbed from road bikes.

More compact sizings with longer oversized, stronger seatposts (ok this example is a bit of a gate, but most were smaller with generous standover). Most contempory bikes were built big because off the shelf seatposts were for road use and thus rather short.

Wide spaced bottom brackets with sealed bearings. Allowed greater tyre clearances and better chain line.

Grease port hubs and headsets.

Sophisticated braking systems that were far superior to anything else at the time.

135mm rear hub spacings for a stronger rear wheel.

All Cunningham firsts (and I'm sure there are others that I have missed). Look beyond the aesthetics and you will see bikes brimming with innovation. Innovations that shaped the modern mountain bike.

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Now that wasnt so bloody hard was it? So why the hostility to those that dont know? Why take it all so personally? Not everybody takes so much interest as some of you.

I'm happy rummaging around the UK's early efforts and promoting where possible, its a cheaper hobby! If the budgets allowed, it would great to get into some historic US metal but dont go flaming everybody because they're happy in their own skin!

If you must mention my old Zaskar, I bought it because I could afford it and have not regretted it in the 18 years since. Its still around where more expensive purchases failed, so that would a big thank you to Mr. Cunningham for his foresight.

The old British stuff was bought because it was cheap, overlooked and fell outside of the usual 1980s lugged clones that were around. They each have there own unique attributes not found on the more mainstream and I'm proud to show them off anytime (except maybe the saracen, we'll, er, gloss over that one).

klaw71":3dwvo3e2 said:

As per previous post

http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/?page_id=3533

where did Breezer get his design idea from??


http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/?page_id=4946

early softail

http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/?page_id=3443

early cannondale 24/26

Click to expand...

As said by many learned people - theres very little thats actually 'new' in bicycling....

Wanting it as "history" I can appreciate and even understand (tho' not share), but as a "bike", no.

But then by education I am an historian not an (industrial) archaeologist!

Very rare, indeed.

A little history: The "crappy" welds are because Charlie did them himself. This makes the bike very rare. I have one as well. Most of his frames were tacked together by Charlie, then welded by Dave Garoutte -www[dot]dkg-cnc[dot]com/museum.html - for that "stack-of-nickels" look. Then Charlie would anneal them by a secret process involving a custom built oven and his fish pond (a former Fairfax, CA swimming pool in his back yard). They were probably the strongest aluminum frames made at the time. They pre-date all other large, thin wall aluminum tube mountain bikes. I was there in those days, seeing Japanese gentlemen in suits with cameras at Charlie's house. The bike is very rare, needs to be restored a bit and put in a museum. I turned down $6700 for mine. Worth more than money.

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As someone who saw first hand the experimentation evolution of bike designs at Cleland and Highpath, this bike looks very much like work in progress. It is not one of the well developed designs we readily associate with Cunningham. No sloping top tube and pleasing proportions here, but more of a Ritchey copy, but made from aircraft grade heat treated aluminum alloy. As such it is an early ancestor of the Aluminum mountain bikes made since.

This bike is not the product of a slick corporation but a hand-builder and pioneer who doesn't know for sure that the welds will be strong enough and so lays the metal on extra thick. And he pop rivets on parts on because its well tried and quick . Bikes like this often don't survive but break and fail as part of the steep learning-curve of their maker. And are frequently made in a hurry and to a price in order to quickly test an idea and never intended to be a work of art, or even last more than a couple of years.

The modern lightweight mountain bike has been built on the shoulders of pioneering giants like Cunningham. These pioneers took risks and got things wrong surely more times than they would admit to.

This bike could be viewed as poorly made and designed. However, it best viewed as a key evolutionary step on the path to great designs and groundbreaking engineering.

No ones answered me yet...

Can I anodise it 3DV to look like a well awsum Zaskar?

I once chopped an lowered my mustang to make it more
Cruiser stylee less gate-tastic.

Could I chop an lower this too or because it's heat treated will I have to cover it in foil first?

I reckon I might fit my 29 er Mags to it too if I buy it.

Or I might just buy a fat one cos someone told me their well proper too.


BBoy