Can anyone help identify 1940s/50s?? not ellis briggs
- Thread starter sasmuel
- Start date
Old Ned
Old School Grand Master
The 'double' cable guide on the BB could be for early Simplex or Huret 'Tour de France' type rear mechs which had a double lever and two cables, one to change gear and one to tension the chain.
The 'square' ends on the dropouts look a bit strange. Are they original or have they been sawn off a bit?
The 'square' ends on the dropouts look a bit strange. Are they original or have they been sawn off a bit?
Nice to see old irons like this.
Any chance of some smaller. sharper images?
Any chance of some smaller. sharper images?
Sam, to start, the seat lug looks like a standard cheap pressing in the pre-war style with ears for the seat stays attachment, which have solid top eyes, also used post WW2 as frames had to be made out of any stock bits.
But I have never seen a seat tube not cut flush with the top of the lug. ( at this sort of age)
If you have 120mm rear end this would surely have been 4.5 inches, is there any sign (slight curve) when you look down the seat stays.
The bottom bracket looks like a casting, but not BSA.
Could it have been built with one Chater fork end and one other?
But I have never seen a seat tube not cut flush with the top of the lug. ( at this sort of age)
If you have 120mm rear end this would surely have been 4.5 inches, is there any sign (slight curve) when you look down the seat stays.
The bottom bracket looks like a casting, but not BSA.
Could it have been built with one Chater fork end and one other?
The seat lug does have bulges that the seat stays appear to be attached to and solid eyes as you say. Does the fact the seat tube is not cut flush mean it is more likely later?
Looking at the rear stays your right on he nail. A slight curve toward the end of the seat stays which if straight would be about bang on 4 1/2" which I guess would make it originally a three speed (115mm)?
The other drop out isnt a Chater.
So to get a round up picture of what we're looking at. Either pre or just post war frame made with cheap cast lugs with one Chater Lea drop out and one unidentified implying was put together out of bits and pieces as part hard to get together in this period. Probably 'upgraded' to 120mm and brazed parts added at the time of the Ellis Briggs decals (early 1950s) and most likely re-spray.
Number on lower lug could be Ellis Briggs but seems like a bit of a botch and perhaps not quality enough to be originally by EB?
Not sure if worth re-building but will touch up and add EB head and seat decals so shall up some sharper pictures after done so.
Really great to get this info, an interesting frame
Looking at the rear stays your right on he nail. A slight curve toward the end of the seat stays which if straight would be about bang on 4 1/2" which I guess would make it originally a three speed (115mm)?
The other drop out isnt a Chater.
So to get a round up picture of what we're looking at. Either pre or just post war frame made with cheap cast lugs with one Chater Lea drop out and one unidentified implying was put together out of bits and pieces as part hard to get together in this period. Probably 'upgraded' to 120mm and brazed parts added at the time of the Ellis Briggs decals (early 1950s) and most likely re-spray.
Number on lower lug could be Ellis Briggs but seems like a bit of a botch and perhaps not quality enough to be originally by EB?
Not sure if worth re-building but will touch up and add EB head and seat decals so shall up some sharper pictures after done so.
Really great to get this info, an interesting frame
Found Neds tension cable on CLW's, http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/co ... -comp.html
cheers Ned!
Couldnt tell if the square were cut or not, probably cut to make the two different drop outs look more the same.
