Frame material & identity!

AndyPA":ri4t7a98 said:

Lazarus":ri4t7a98 said:

Thanks for that tip Andy, very interesting walkthrough of frame building too

Hope you don't mind "but I wouldn't know exactly what I'm looking for re: rake & colour, so have posted a few pics. Perhaps yourself / someone in here can guide me slightly further ?

Take care buddy, yours Laz

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753 forks blades have a very distinctive curve as they were supplied pre bent by the factory.They dont look like 735 to me,check the seat pin size for the frame it will be 26.8mm or 27mm
The tube ends will also be a give away,anything non 753 will probably have factory domed ends

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Did Reynolds only supply one curve shape, perhaps there were different shapes and different rakes, and also different variation at different times? I have a Rourke frame, supposedly 753 around mid 80s, with that sort of curve that starts low down the forks.

And wasn't 753 a thin walled tubing, and is 27.2?

That forks shape; with the curve starting very low down just above the dropouts, and continuing in a curve all the way to the dropout is not usual with British built frames from that time, I think. More common is with the curve at about halfway, then a long straight bit above the dropout. I gather GB had some of their frames built in Italy, and I think that forks curve shape is more common on Italian frames.

As mentioned, a Cinelli bb or Columbus dropouts doesn't really say anythings about what the frame is.

Weight might give a clue about the tubing. Columbus tubing can have a dove stamped to the steerer tube.

Thanks again Andy Definately got a 27.2 seatpost.

Thanks for the input Fiks Although it flips what I was beginning to think, it also mirrors what I was thinking before asking. I guess the mid 80's onwards is awkward because Columbus was definately eating into Reynolds markets and English frame builders where in the thick of the dreaded MTB age (feeling the pinch).

Maybe in amongst all the palava of it all, regulations over who could do what with 753 where thrown out the window ? Was always of the school that 753 was sacred tubing

I'm beginning to think 753 is a rather difficult issue to resolve with certainty. I was hoping that someone would confirm that ALL 753's where numbered/stamped/catalogued in some way because of the issue of "being qualified to use the stuff at all?" OR "perhaps 1 single irrefutable aspect of 753 might surface"

753 is sniffed at now, but back in 1970's -80's it was THE tube to be had and very expensive to buy a frame made of the stuff, striclty for the pro's and well off. Many a dream was built around being able to afford a 753 one day

Having read the wonderful article "Recollections of Ilkeston.
By Gavin Campbell" ( http://spinwell.co.uk/2010/03/19/recoll ... -ilkeston/ ) I got the impression that the tests undertaken by frame builders to be even granted the rights to buy & use 753, was very stringent, hence assuming some kind of cataloguing.

I shall dig further Really Appreciate your help though everyone My best to you all, yours Laz.

Lazarus":3spkr8if said:

Thanks again Andy
753 is sniffed at now, but back in 1970's -80's it was THE tube to be had and very expensive to buy a frame made of the stuff, striclty for the pro's and well off. Many a dream was built around being able to afford a 753 one day
Having read the wonderful article "Recollections of Ilkeston.
By Gavin Campbell" ( http://spinwell.co.uk/2010/03/19/recoll ... -ilkeston/ ) I got the impression that the tests undertaken by frame builders to be even granted the rights to buy & use 753, was very stringent, hence assuming some kind of cataloguing.
.

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the test wasnt very stringent it meant you could basically silver solder two pieces of steel together which doesnt mean you can build a frame properly.753 is brilliant to ride very stiff and light in its day,you are spot on that it was definitely the tube set to have.The profile of the chain and seat stays are all clues to 753 but its impossible to tell from your photos.

Thanks again Andy, ALL info is gratefully accepted and digested buddy Having worked most of my life around metals of 1 sort or another I can appreciate the line " being able to silver solder doesn't make for a good frame builder"

This thing about "Silver Solder" is what I am digging to understand (as someone who has welded just about every material known to man). I cant get anywhere (yet) as to "what it looks like when used, as opposed to conventional 531/columbus based solders.

I guess my instinct drives me to determine 753 from any other tubing via the silver aspect of the soldering/brasing. It is my pure asumption that ALL other tubings are conventional and that 753 is distinct because of this "silver" issue.

Take care buddy, yours Laz.

Lazarus":3fmzrvui said:

Thanks again Andy, ALL info is gratefully accepted and digested buddy Having worked most of my life around metals of 1 sort or another I can appreciate the line " being able to silver solder doesn't make for a good frame builder"

This thing about "Silver Solder" is what I am digging to understand (as someone who has welded just about every material known to man). I cant get anywhere (yet) as to "what it looks like when used, as opposed to conventional 531/columbus based solders.

I guess my instinct drives me to determine 753 from any other tubing via the silver aspect of the soldering/brasing. It is my pure asumption that ALL other tubings are conventional and that 753 is distinct because of this "silver" issue.

Take care buddy, yours Laz.

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its as you would expect silver in colour, brass is a very distinctive gold/brass colour.I will post a picture of both later tonight
753 tubing is also black/grey due to the hardening process ,if you look inside the tubes you can see this quite clearly

Cheers Andy, "you're a gent" " I'll owe you 1 buddy" Very keen to see the difference my friend, THANK YOU , yours Laz

spot the difference


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Thanks again Andy Brass/Rear Silver/Front ? The picture appears to show a much lighter solder on the front. You have been a great help buddy "hats off to you for taking the time" Yours Laz.