Coolwall Jan 2011 - Shimano MTB groupsets

hydorah":2cowctbe said:

OK so you come back with yet more examples

- Which are basically the same so just for fun I'll get into three of them at random

Let pick Alfas off that list, Dean Martin and the Fonz Ehhhhhh to complete the trio

The Fonz was Henry Winkler a forty year old dude who was pretending to be in High School, what was his game eh? nuff said

Dean Martin? What the hell is cool about Dean Martin? Did he have any talents?

Alfa! Most car nuts will have owned one in their lifetime cos it's attainable Italiano, will learn their lesson and never buy another

Unreliable, rust-bucket rubbish with resale prices that fall faster than a skydiver with a concrete parachute - Because of those facts

They are not Ferrari or Lamborghini

And now this debate (between us) has become purely about the nature of cool

Therefore utterly irrelevant to the coolwall question!

I think if we see anyone else have a similar debate in any future coolwalls we should point them here

That'd teach 'em!

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hollister":1vief802 said:

I'm not sure now said:

Neil":1vief802 said:

hydorah":1vief802 said:

Neil":1vief802 said:

^proof that an argument of emotion can be compelling when done right. well done

until you got to the FACT part

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That was me being facetious. It's one of my many flaws, being too subtle ;-)

Don't be distracted, though - just 'cos I said it in jest, doesn't make it any less true.

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So is the " - for you

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Au contraire...

I'm merely parroting the general concept of "cool", and the one which this one begs, borrows and steals from - the TG coolwall.

hydorah":1vief802 said:

Not 'facts' or 'truths'

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How is it not true that the concept of "cool" is distinct and different from being "something I like" or "something I think is good"? Otherwise, we'd just have a likewall or a goodwall.doesn't make it any less true" facetious, also?

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Probably not - not sure facetiousness was quite where I was going, there.

hydorah":1vief802 said:

Cos "true" is synomymous with "FACT"

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I think there's a subtle difference, though.

Just because I may have been being facetious, arrogant, hubristic, doesn't detract from it actually being true...

hydorah":1vief802 said:

What you have described is a personal opinion on what the criteria are for coolness

But we don't. We have a coolwall, for all it's glory, charm, and failings.

hydorah":1vief802 said:

- And to be honest your post is highly dictatorial

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Oh but that was part of it's charm.
The great thing is when people quote then it all gets so messy and you can write any old shit and no one reads it, or if they do then you're a boring person. So let's test it out... All low end and mid range bikes are shit, and the people who ride them are proles, oh and here's a ;0) so people dont think I'm serious but realise that I am just proving a point, towit quotes are shit.
And
It offers plenty of insight.

FACT.

hydorah":1vief802 said:

That is utterly uncool

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See what I mean about not really getting it?
it was deliberate.

And from the reading of your reply, it worked ;-)

hydorah":1vief802 said:

- And doesn't offer any insight whatsoever

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Sorry, gotta take issue with you, there.

Not adding any insight would actually contribute to it being cool.

hydorah":1vief802 said:

You can have a different criteria for cool if you want. But you can't tell me that you have the truth. I personally think your criteria is bollocks

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Good for you.

How's that working out for you?

hydorah":1vief802 said:

You should have read some previous posts perhaps to see that it is alreday acknowledged not everyone has same criteria for things being 'cool'

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That's OK - everybody has the right to be wrong.

But fair play - people not wanting to really get it, is no sin. But what they, and from the sounds of it, you, really want is a "I LIKE" wall, or a "goodwall".

hydorah":1vief802 said:

However, it is my opinion that if given free choice you go out select stuff for use on your precious steeds - and you have gone and selected stuff that your 'truth' and 'facts' tell you are uncool...

Then I'd be intrigued to read an explanation of that

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1. I'm far from convinced you'd be intrigued.

2. Whether I understand "cool", or not, doesn't mean I live my life by it, or even buy into such a nebulous, peurile notion.

hydorah":1vief802 said:

If Shimano isn't cool to you, get rid of it all... Do it... Do it now

Click to expand...

You still don't really get this "cool" thing, do you.

Shimano isn't cool, simply because on the whole, it isn't. Doesn't mean it isn't good. Doesn't mean I don't like some of it. Doesn't mean I'm remotely concerned if all my bikes are uncool or have uncool bits on.

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al":1vief802 said:

hydorah":1vief802 said:

I'd hate to be stuck in a lift with you.

You could send a glass eye to sleep.

al. :roll:

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Why are you making insults Al?

What's the problem?

Click to expand...

Not so much an insult as an observation.

The problem I have is the arsey way you have tried to patronise. I'm not sure you would recognise this in yourself though? A little like a smart arse school teacher that talks b******* for a living.

The thing is, I bet you're a top bloke face to face. It's just a shame you feel the need to kick the a*** out of a subject that is boring to start with.

al.

ps I'm going to send you a pm so you can swear at me as much as you feel fit.

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hydorah":1vief802 said:

al":1vief802 said:

hydorah":1vief802 said:

I'd hate to be stuck in a lift with you.

You could send a glass eye to sleep.

al. :roll:

Click to expand...

Why are you making insults Al?

What's the problem?

Click to expand...

Not so much an insult as an observation.

The problem I have is the arsey way you have tried to patronise. I'm not sure you would recognise this in yourself though? A little like a smart arse school teacher that talks b******* for a living.

The thing is, I bet you're a top bloke face to face. It's just a shame you feel the need to kick the a*** out of a subject that is boring to start with.

al.

ps I'm going to send you a pm so you can swear at me as much as you feel fit.

Click to expand...

I'll quickly respond here before getting your PM

- Good thing to do by the way

I saw your earlier posts and saw some people attacking them, but didn't get on to you

I noticed you sniping at my posts every now and then but didn't bite, well until it became direct!

Maybe if it's getting too *whatever* for you, you could have unsubscribed?

And yeah I know how I talked - It was because I felt it necessary

I know I'm a smart arse git and I'm not ashamed of it!

I'm sure you're a top bloke face to face, Also

But yeah no bother here, Al - It's just a forum - I love debate!

Edit:

Thanks for the PM Al

You're views make sense

I hope we get to talk again in future

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pete_mcc":2ti61mhc said:

hollister":2ti61mhc said:

I'm not sure now said:

Neil":2ti61mhc said:

hydorah":2ti61mhc said:

Neil":2ti61mhc said:

^proof that an argument of emotion can be compelling when done right. well done

until you got to the FACT part

Click to expand...

That was me being facetious. It's one of my many flaws, being too subtle ;-)

Don't be distracted, though - just 'cos I said it in jest, doesn't make it any less true.

Click to expand...

So is the " - for you

Click to expand...

Au contraire...

I'm merely parroting the general concept of "cool", and the one which this one begs, borrows and steals from - the TG coolwall.

hydorah":2ti61mhc said:

Not 'facts' or 'truths'

Click to expand...

How is it not true that the concept of "cool" is distinct and different from being "something I like" or "something I think is good"? Otherwise, we'd just have a likewall or a goodwall.doesn't make it any less true" facetious, also?

Click to expand...

Probably not - not sure facetiousness was quite where I was going, there.

hydorah":2ti61mhc said:

Cos "true" is synomymous with "FACT"

Click to expand...

I think there's a subtle difference, though.

Just because I may have been being facetious, arrogant, hubristic, doesn't detract from it actually being true...

hydorah":2ti61mhc said:

What you have described is a personal opinion on what the criteria are for coolness

But we don't. We have a coolwall, for all it's glory, charm, and failings.

hydorah":2ti61mhc said:

- And to be honest your post is highly dictatorial

Click to expand...

Oh but that was part of it's charm.
The great thing is when people quote then it all gets so messy and you can write any old shit and no one reads it, or if they do then you're a boring person. So let's test it out... All low end and mid range bikes are shit, and the people who ride them are proles, oh and here's a ;0) so people dont think I'm serious but realise that I am just proving a point, towit quotes are shit.
And
It offers plenty of insight.

FACT.

hydorah":2ti61mhc said:

That is utterly uncool

Click to expand...

See what I mean about not really getting it?
it was deliberate.

And from the reading of your reply, it worked ;-)

hydorah":2ti61mhc said:

- And doesn't offer any insight whatsoever

Click to expand...

Sorry, gotta take issue with you, there.

Not adding any insight would actually contribute to it being cool.

hydorah":2ti61mhc said:

You can have a different criteria for cool if you want. But you can't tell me that you have the truth. I personally think your criteria is bollocks

Click to expand...

Good for you.

How's that working out for you?

hydorah":2ti61mhc said:

You should have read some previous posts perhaps to see that it is alreday acknowledged not everyone has same criteria for things being 'cool'

Click to expand...

That's OK - everybody has the right to be wrong.

But fair play - people not wanting to really get it, is no sin. But what they, and from the sounds of it, you, really want is a "I LIKE" wall, or a "goodwall".

hydorah":2ti61mhc said:

However, it is my opinion that if given free choice you go out select stuff for use on your precious steeds - and you have gone and selected stuff that your 'truth' and 'facts' tell you are uncool...

Then I'd be intrigued to read an explanation of that

Click to expand...

1. I'm far from convinced you'd be intrigued.

2. Whether I understand "cool", or not, doesn't mean I live my life by it, or even buy into such a nebulous, peurile notion.

hydorah":2ti61mhc said:

If Shimano isn't cool to you, get rid of it all... Do it... Do it now

Click to expand...

You still don't really get this "cool" thing, do you.

Shimano isn't cool, simply because on the whole, it isn't. Doesn't mean it isn't good. Doesn't mean I don't like some of it. Doesn't mean I'm remotely concerned if all my bikes are uncool or have uncool bits on.

Click to expand...

al":2ti61mhc said:

hydorah":2ti61mhc said:

I'd hate to be stuck in a lift with you.

You could send a glass eye to sleep.

al. :roll:

Click to expand...

Why are you making insults Al?

What's the problem?

Click to expand...

Not so much an insult as an observation.

The problem I have is the arsey way you have tried to patronise. I'm not sure you would recognise this in yourself though? A little like a smart arse school teacher that talks b******* for a living.

The thing is, I bet you're a top bloke face to face. It's just a shame you feel the need to kick the a*** out of a subject that is boring to start with.

al.

ps I'm going to send you a pm so you can swear at me as much as you feel fit.

Click to expand...

hydorah":2ti61mhc said:

al":2ti61mhc said:

hydorah":2ti61mhc said:

I'd hate to be stuck in a lift with you.

You could send a glass eye to sleep.

al. :roll:

Click to expand...

Why are you making insults Al?

What's the problem?

Click to expand...

Not so much an insult as an observation.

The problem I have is the arsey way you have tried to patronise. I'm not sure you would recognise this in yourself though? A little like a smart arse school teacher that talks b******* for a living.

The thing is, I bet you're a top bloke face to face. It's just a shame you feel the need to kick the a*** out of a subject that is boring to start with.

al.

ps I'm going to send you a pm so you can swear at me as much as you feel fit.

Click to expand...

I'll quickly respond here before getting your PM

- Good thing to do by the way

I saw your earlier posts and saw some people attacking them, but didn't get on to you

I noticed you sniping at my posts every now and then but didn't bite, well until it became direct!

Maybe if it's getting too *whatever* for you, you could have unsubscribed?

And yeah I know how I talked - It was because I felt it necessary

I know I'm a smart arse git and I'm not ashamed of it!

I'm sure you're a top bloke face to face, Also

But yeah no bother here, Al - It's just a forum - I love debate!

Edit:

Thanks for the PM Al

You're views make sense

I hope we get to talk again in future

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

:!:

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Neil":2riaiupa said:

The problem with all of that, though, is you've evaluated all of those examples - you've used some rationale, some value, some measure. And to be blunt - being "cool" isn't about any of those things - actually, in several of the critiques you've given above, despite, or because of, many of those factors.

That is exactly where you're going wrong.

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hydorah":29a840ap said:

Neil":29a840ap said:

The problem with all of that, though, is you've evaluated all of those examples - you've used some rationale, some value, some measure. And to be blunt - being "cool" isn't about any of those things - actually, in several of the critiques you've given above, despite, or because of, many of those factors.

That is exactly where you're going wrong.

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Neil, YOU are stating various things and people as being cool, if any discussion is made of YOUR judegments of cool, that person is going wrong

Your words not mine

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hydorah":37tctf5u said:

The Miles davis pic coincided with my perception of cool

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