Retrobike Forum Index

It is currently Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:50 pm

* Login   * Register * Search  * FAQ



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:58 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
King of the Skip Monkeys

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:34 pm
Posts: 29393
Theres a lot of middle englanders but also a hell of a lot of people who can sympathise with the what the Griffo the Clown party represents, simply because to them, it strikes common ground.

The outer shell has things in common, referencing immigration, the fear of other cultures/ religions/ religious practices that 'aint proper english'

I look out of my window and see generic english types whereas I drive through Luton and get a frission of nervousness when confronted by so many asians in traditional dress.

My own nervousness is almost immidiately disspelled due to common sense and education but this is not the case for everyone.

Its this 'frission' that the Griffo the Clown party have nurtured, making the generic english person scared of anything not within the boundries of WWII poster.


The Griffo the Clown party then seize and exaggerate this frission, exposing the inner shell of the party as the racist biggoted right wing organisation that we all know and mock.

Unfortunately this leads to perfectly inoccent people believing their diatribe and voting them in where they feel most threatened,i.e, where the Griffo the Clown party has been most succsessful with its campaigning.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:08 pm 
Old School Grand Master

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:55 pm
Posts: 9181
Location: New Forest, UK
Neil wrote:
hamster wrote:
I agree - they deserve a platform for their views.


Is that on merit, though, or purely based on the free speech thing?

hamster wrote:
That's what Free Speech is all about,


Here's a question for you, though, and I'm not asking it with an agenda, or my mind made up - I'm merely playing devil's advocate, and all that...

Is Free Speech all it's cracked up to be, and such a great thing for society?

Sure, I understand the prescribed response, which is to cite the scenarios where free speech hasn't been so free - but that's not necessarily cause / effect - or effect / cause.

hamster wrote:
and we fought a just war against the fascists who prevented it.


Which war would that be, then? 'cos if it's anything to do with Iraq, it's nothing to do with free speech, same for Afghanistan.

hamster wrote:
Griffin showed himself to be the unintelligent, narrow-minded and woefully ill-informed berk I suspected him to be.


Well some people take delight in that, but not me.

If he's such the buffoon that everybody is claiming, it's rather troubling he's managed to garner the support he has so far (in terms of votes, MPs and MEPs).


The whole point of living in a free society includes the ability of a small minority to voice views unacceptable to the majority. Some of them later become accepted as the norm (votes for women being a clear example).

Having lived in a country without free speech, and where legitimate, peaceable opposition politicians are hounded to bankruptcy by defamation laws, we don't know how lucky we are.

As for the Just War I was referring to WW2, which history has clearly shown to have been the right thing to do. The loss of life on all sides was calamitous, and the Allies have their share of guilt on certain actions, but the world is clearly a better place for it having been fought.

And yes, it is troubling that the BNP has the support it does, and that the sort of people who vote for it feel so marginalised.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:15 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
King of the Skip Monkeys

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:34 pm
Posts: 29393
legrandefromage wrote:
Theres a lot of middle englanders but also a hell of a lot of people who can sympathise with the what the Griffo the Clown party represents, simply because to them, it strikes common ground.

The outer shell has things in common, referencing immigration, the fear of other cultures/ religions/ religious practices that 'aint proper english'

I look out of my window and see generic english types whereas I drive through Luton and get a frission of nervousness when confronted by so many asians in traditional dress.

My own nervousness is almost immidiately disspelled due to common sense and education but this is not the case for everyone.

Its this 'frission' that the Griffo the Clown party have nurtured, making the generic english person scared of anything not within the boundries of WWII poster.


The Griffo the Clown party then seize and exaggerate this frission, exposing the inner shell of the party as the racist biggoted right wing organisation that we all know and mock.

Unfortunately this leads to perfectly inoccent people believing their diatribe and voting them in where they feel most threatened,i.e, where the Griffo the Clown party has been most succsessful with its campaigning.



read it! Took me **** ages and made my brain hurt


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:23 pm 
Old School Grand Master
Old School Grand Master

Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:37 am
Posts: 4916
I'm not sure how many genuinely feel 'threatened'. In many examples I've come across it falls along lines of have and have not. White Brit sees immigrant with something he doesn't have and wonders why. They may just overlook the simple fact that the immigrant could simply be smarter and harder working than them, but it's irrelevant as the opportunity that immigrant took is lost to them. That's not fear it's resentment. Question is, why is the immigrant smarter and harder working?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:28 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
King of the Skip Monkeys

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:34 pm
Posts: 29393
Tallpaul wrote:
I'm not sure how many genuinely feel 'threatened'. In many examples I've come across it falls along lines of have and have not. White Brit sees immigrant with something he doesn't have and wonders why. They may just overlook the simple fact that the immigrant could simply be smarter and harder working than them, but it's irrelevant as the opportunity that immigrant took is lost to them. That's not fear it's resentment. Question is, why is the immigrant smarter and harder working?



add that to the list of things that the Griffo the Clown party uses to gain popularity, I was just giving one example used by the Sun during the summer (Burkas in brixton/ T-shirts in Teran sort of thing)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:41 pm 
Special Retro Guru
Special Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:34 am
Posts: 5663
Location: Don't mess with monkeys, man
hamster wrote:
The whole point of living in a free society includes the ability of a small minority to voice views unacceptable to the majority. Some of them later become accepted as the norm (votes for women being a clear example).

Having lived in a country without free speech, and where legitimate, peaceable opposition politicians are hounded to bankruptcy by defamation laws, we don't know how lucky we are.

I accept that - but not the argument of extremes, whereby in becoming intolerant to what society deems as unacceptable, automatically means that we must accept a society that's oppressive to the majority of the electorate.
hamster wrote:
As for the Just War I was referring to WW2, which history has clearly shown to have been the right thing to do. The loss of life on all sides was calamitous, and the Allies have their share of guilt on certain actions, but the world is clearly a better place for it having been fought.

Indeed - no argument there.

But bearing in mind that WWII wasn't fought over oppression in Germany, or the lack of free speech, there, WWII was fought because the German nation started invading other countries.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:51 pm 
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 11:03 am
Posts: 18980
Location: Sunny Glasgow
I dont watch them,either on their broadcasts of while on question time
I have no interest in who they are,what they look like or any of the shit the spout.

But they must be allowed to peddle their hate mongering or forget freedom of speech.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:56 pm 
Special Retro Guru
Special Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:34 am
Posts: 5663
Location: Don't mess with monkeys, man
dyna-ti wrote:
But they must be allowed to peddle their hate mongering or forget freedom of speech.


Why?

Freedom of speech is already curtailed for some things (inciting certain behaviour, slander, language likely to cause offence) - why not for hate mongering?

What's so important about the things that do deserve freedom of speech being curtailed compared with hate mongering views of extremists?

(I'm just asking the question, I'm not necessarily advocating it, but exploring the idea, all the same)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:58 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
King of the Skip Monkeys

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:34 pm
Posts: 29393
somebody quote me please , just so all that thinking didnt go to waste...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:03 pm 
Special Retro Guru
Special Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:34 am
Posts: 5663
Location: Don't mess with monkeys, man
legrandefromage wrote:
Theres a lot of middle englanders but also a hell of a lot of people who can sympathise with the what the Griffo the Clown party represents, simply because to them, it strikes common ground.

The outer shell has things in common, referencing immigration, the fear of other cultures/ religions/ religious practices that 'aint proper english'

I look out of my window and see generic english types whereas I drive through Luton and get a frission of nervousness when confronted by so many asians in traditional dress.

My own nervousness is almost immidiately disspelled due to common sense and education but this is not the case for everyone.

Its this 'frission' that the Griffo the Clown party have nurtured, making the generic english person scared of anything not within the boundries of WWII poster.


The Griffo the Clown party then seize and exaggerate this frission, exposing the inner shell of the party as the racist biggoted right wing organisation that we all know and mock.

Unfortunately this leads to perfectly inoccent people believing their diatribe and voting them in where they feel most threatened,i.e, where the Griffo the Clown party has been most succsessful with its campaigning.

As requested!

I did read it. I'm not sure it all boils down to either intelligence or education, though. I think a lot of it is tolerance and acceptance - and I'm not convinced those are things that are educatable (if that's a real word).

Understanding other cultures, religions or nations may be things that education educates, but I think tolerance and acceptance of difference isn't something that occurs in people simply through education.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ajm and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

About Us

Follow Retrobike

Other cool stuff

All content © 2005-2015 Retrobike unless otherwise stated.
Cookies Policy.
bikedeals - the best bike deals in one place
FatCOGS - Fat Chance Owner's Group

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group