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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:53 am 
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one-eyed_jim wrote:
There's no reason we shouldn't all have the rights the postmen demand, but to get them we need solidarity - especially so when times are hard. That's why we need unions.


So which of the "rights" that the CWU (not the majority of posties unless I'm very much mistaken) are demanding do you think we all have a born right to?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:57 am 
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one-eyed_jim wrote:
BarneyRubble wrote:
I work in the private sector and on a largely commission based pay structure. I have NO benefits, work fairly long hours and am expected to deliver at least £110k in profit to the company each year in order to keep my job. When I want a payrise I am told - work harder, for longer. If I don't like it, do you know what I can do...that's right, nothing other than find another job.

This was the same rhetoric that swayed a lot of people during the miners' strikes. "You have no rights. Why should they have rights?"

There's no reason we shouldn't all have the rights the postmen demand, but to get them we need solidarity - especially so when times are hard. That's why we need unions.

The alternative is a race to the bottom.


OK let me explain myself more clearly: I work in recruitment and have done for the last 6 years. I work in a sector where many of the individuals I place into new jobs work in the public sector and I am constantly surprised by the pay and conditions they receive; one chap who was a Senior Town Planner had been with the same council for 5 years. He was earning a similar wage to a planning consultant at the same level in the private sector, yet he had accumulated 35 days annual leave, (which with the flexi time he was able to build up amounted to 70 days annual leave) a final salary pension and numerous other benefits. He was interviewed for a couple of jobs in the private sector but turned them down because he couldn't match his 70 days off each year and pension and he did so whinging that it was unfair.
Now during his 14 weeks annual leave the council had to find temporary cover that cost them 3 times his hourly wage as the planning applications didn't stop coming in because he was on holiday. He was just one planner in that department of 20 so you can imagine the total cost to that council each year of meeting the working conditions of their employees. The same planning team were all quick to complain when they didn't get their guarnateed pay rise that year - it just seems that those of us who work in the private sector are far more appreciative of having a job in the first place.

These sorts of scenarios are repeated throughout the public sector - workers are often apathetic and unwilling to do anything that is outside their job description. It creates waste and inefficiency thoughout the whole public sector and ultimately leads to higher taxes for all. If the public sector was run more like a business and less like a charity then we might be in a position to start reducing national debt and retuning to some semblance of a functional economy.

The parcels that get delivered by citilink or similar over the course of the strike will be delivered by workers on a similar wage to the postmen, who have to experience the same increases in the number of deliveries each day and receive very few benefits in return. They knew what the job entailed when they applied. They will deliver them with minimal fuss and Royal mail will continue to lose customers meaning that ultimately more jobs will be lost. I hate to agree with Mandleson, but these strikes are self defeating.

Sorry for the elongated rant, but I guess I have just seen more than my share of people who are lucky enough to have jobs complaining when at the same time I speak daily to hundreds of people who are unemployed and desperate to work.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:02 am 
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one-eyed_jim wrote:
BarneyRubble wrote:
I work in the private sector and on a largely commission based pay structure. I have NO benefits, work fairly long hours and am expected to deliver at least £110k in profit to the company each year in order to keep my job. When I want a payrise I am told - work harder, for longer. If I don't like it, do you know what I can do...that's right, nothing other than find another job.

This was the same rhetoric that swayed a lot of people during the miners' strikes. "You have no rights. Why should they have rights?"

There's no reason we shouldn't all have the rights the postmen demand, but to get them we need solidarity - especially so when times are hard. That's why we need unions.

The alternative is a race to the bottom.


I too am confused to these rights could you clarify?

And who are these they people to which you refer?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:04 am 
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''strikes are self defeating''

I do agree with on that.
But having just worked with an ex manager from the post office I can see why the work force are so un happy. Even we got shot of him.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:11 am 
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Easy_Rider wrote:
I too am confused to these rights could you clarify?

I will if you do. I can't parse that sentence.

Quote:
And who are these they people to which you refer?

In the context of what I wrote above, the parties taking industrial action.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:19 am 
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working for a school , local council , I can say that yes it makes you lazy .

i have 14 weeks holiday a year and I now wonder how I managed with 4 weeks in private sector .

most of the problem is red tape i think , the amount of paper work and regulations compared to a private company is just unbelievable .
in the public sector , you cant just get on with it . I am lucky i am not affected too much in my section , but some of my colleagues are just swimming and drowning in a sea of rules and regulations .


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:20 am 
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BarneyRubble wrote:
I thought I'd chuck my hat into the ring: I work in the private sector and on a largely commission based pay structure. I have NO benefits, work fairly long hours and am expected to deliver at least £110k in profit to the company each year in order to keep my job. When I want a payrise I am told - work harder, for longer. If I don't like it, do you know what I can do...that's right, nothing other than find another job.





Where do I sign :lol: , honestly was this in the blurb when you applied for the position? What is it you do?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:27 am 
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BarneyRubble wrote:
I work in recruitment and have done for the last 6 years. I work in a sector where many of the individuals I place into new jobs work in the public sector and I am constantly surprised by the pay and conditions they receive; one chap who was a Senior Town Planner had been with the same council for 5 years. He was earning a similar wage to a planning consultant at the same level in the private sector, yet he had accumulated 35 days annual leave, (which with the flexi time he was able to build up amounted to 70 days annual leave) a final salary pension and numerous other benefits. He was interviewed for a couple of jobs in the private sector but turned them down because he couldn't match his 70 days off each year and pension and he did so whinging that it was unfair.

I can't speak for individual cases, obviously. Public sector jobs tend to have lower pay than private sector jobs, offset by improved security and benefits. My brother recently took a substantial pay cut to work for his local council rather than contract for them. The alternative was unemployment.

Quote:
it just seems that those of us who work in the private sector are far more appreciative of having a job in the first place.

Again, that's the rhetoric that emerges when times get tough. "They should be glad to have a job at all."

Quote:
These sorts of scenarios are repeated throughout the public sector - workers are often apathetic and unwilling to do anything that is outside their job description. It creates waste and inefficiency thoughout the whole public sector and ultimately leads to higher taxes for all. If the public sector was run more like a business and less like a charity then we might be in a position to start reducing national debt and retuning to some semblance of a functional economy.

My mum also works for the local government - in the library service. The effect of efficiency drive after efficiency drive is that experienced and loyal staff are constantly being forced to reapply for their own jobs, and every contract is given to the lowest bidder, regardless of competence. I dare you to tell my mum she's apathetic or inefficient. She's running two libraries on a skeleton staff. She never takes a fraction of her holiday entitlement: there's nobody to cover for her.

Quote:
The parcels that get delivered by citilink or similar over the course of the strike will be delivered by workers on a similar wage to the postmen, who have to experience the same increases in the number of deliveries each day and receive very few benefits in return. They knew what the job entailed when they applied.

It's a stark choice - no benefits, no security, or no job. Again, it's a race to the bottom, and a good argument for unions, not against them.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:33 am 
King of the DuckBoard
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Quote:
it just seems that those of us who work in the private sector are far more appreciative of having a job in the first place.

Again, that's the rhetoric that emerges when times get tough. "They should be glad to have a job at all."

I agree i thought that had gone out in the 1900's that comment :twisted:

Workers Rights AND Human Rights go together hand in hand. Just look at how bad things are in China :cry:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:16 am 
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ajm wrote:
So which of the "rights" that the CWU (not the majority of posties unless I'm very much mistaken) are demanding do you think we all have a born right to?

The right to use the bargaining power of collective labour to defend the conditions under which we work.

Quote:
a born right to?

Let me clarify that I'm not arguing for the notion of "born rights" as such. Rights are negotiated and defended.


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