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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:32 am 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:40 am
Posts: 269
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Now I may (will??) be totally wrong with any facts here, but one one of the major car companies (GM?) did a 'whole of life' comparison between a hybrid, and a good, old fashioned gas guzzler (possibly even a H3). In terms of cost, and ecological negatives, the 'old' technology won, hands down.
I'm willing to bet that hybrids will eventually be found out to be more detrimental to the environment in the long term.
The best way to ensure the future of earth, as we know it now, is to halve the poulation, not drive a hybrid.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:57 am 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:49 am
Posts: 4061
Location: A veritable floating palace
Everything is possible, but only at much lower speeds with less push button technology than we're used to.
Electric bikes are pretty good for extending the range normal people can cover over long distances. 20 hilly miles a day at 15mph is easy on an electric bike, and much cheaper than a car if you weigh up the running costs and initial outlay. But they only help, you still have to pedal, and you still get wet when it rains and have to interact with the outside world.
What's necessary is a shift across all of society so we let go of the idea we should all sit in a metal box that weighs a ton and can do 100 miles an hour to drive to an office five miles away. That's the bottom line. Did anyone hear the interview with the American man on Radio 4 the other day? He said he'd be happy to have an electric vehicle, providing it was as good as his pickup. And the thing is, electric vehicles patently aren't.
And that's a very bitter pill to swallow.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:13 am 
King of the Skip Monkeys
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Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:34 pm
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Location: Moomin Valley
Theres more to this than meet sthe eye:

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/who- ... ectric-car

Electric cars have been around almsot as long as combustion engines. You can build your own easy enough. about ten years ago in 'Practiacl Classics' there was an old VW Sirocco with batteries instead of an engine. The builder was still working out how to make it noisy as it was too quiet.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:47 am 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:13 pm
Posts: 8176
Location: Tredavoe, Cornwall
I have been looking at the elctrickery powered cars for a while now!

I am also thinking of a new project, Skoda 110r with lecky!!

Sounds like a winner to me?

Al. :D


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:52 am 
Old School Grand Master

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:55 pm
Posts: 8202
Location: New Forest, UK
ozpete wrote:
Now I may (will??) be totally wrong with any facts here, but one one of the major car companies (GM?) did a 'whole of life' comparison between a hybrid, and a good, old fashioned gas guzzler (possibly even a H3). In terms of cost, and ecological negatives, the 'old' technology won, hands down.
I'm willing to bet that hybrids will eventually be found out to be more detrimental to the environment in the long term.
The best way to ensure the future of earth, as we know it now, is to halve the poulation, not drive a hybrid.


I'm not entirely sure how impartial any research by GM might be, but it is very difficult to balance more CO2 emissions compared to say digging a big hole to extract more rare elements for batteries.

What is clear though is that there are many alternatives, and smaller lighter cars are undoubtedly essential. How many people really need 2.5 tons of car for ANYTHING?

If American cars were better there would be some justification, but in EuroNCAP crash tests they score consistently lowest, in spite of being largest and heaviest.

BMW are particularly impressive with their light hybrid concepts with energy recovery on braking and idle: an 8% increase in economy in one year across the range!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:55 am 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:53 pm
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Location: Super Sussex by the Sea
cherrybomb wrote:
I recently had a conversation with someone who owns one of those Toyota Pious things. It's now over six years old and the batteries have a service life of around eight years.
Putting aside the issues of all the exotic metals and chemicals used to manufacture the batteries, they have been advised that it would make better financial sense to scrap the car and buy a new one than replace the batteries when they fail! :shock:

At the moment, until they can find a sustainable way to produce hydrogen in the quantities required, lean burn technology is where its at.


I believe when they were first released the cost of new batteries was approximately £8k!!!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

Have you noticed how Toyota has realised that people have discovered the fallacy of the Prius and are now saying it's a stepping stone to better, greener things now in their adverts!?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:40 pm 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:44 pm
Posts: 138
Location: Kent
ozpete wrote:
Now I may (will??) be totally wrong with any facts here, but one one of the major car companies (GM?) did a 'whole of life' comparison between a hybrid, and a good, old fashioned gas guzzler (possibly even a H3). In terms of cost, and ecological negatives, the 'old' technology won, hands down.
I'm willing to bet that hybrids will eventually be found out to be more detrimental to the environment in the long term.
The best way to ensure the future of earth, as we know it now, is to halve the poulation, not drive a hybrid.


I think that this is what you were looking for

http://www.cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/

Barry


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