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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:59 pm 
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chris667 wrote:
That's fair enough, but I think companies have a responsibility to the people they employ. Maybe not legally in this case, but morally, I think so.
The writing's been on the wall for most of the car industry for years, and really these companies should have seen that.


Technically the company do not employ these people,an agency does.Where I work we have agency personnel working next to me who earn £200 a month more but their contracts are renewed every month and they have non of my benefits.
They are only trying to make a living but the ones I work with understand they maybe finished any time with just a weeks pay in hand,even the ones who have now been there over 4 years.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:14 am 
Section Moderator & South West AEC
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i tend to agree wih Dr s on this union wise. since leaving the bike trade and now working in the chemical industry i was expected to join the union, so i have. the good things are we are better insured etc and there are some personal benefits and discounts we can get but what the union pushes for i think is total bullshit.

just over a year ago before i joined the company there was almost a strike over pay, fair enough they wanted more money but what they didn't realise was that if they had striked then the company that owns us would probably have shut down the plant and flogged it! they push too hard for pay rises thinking its the right thing to do but i'd rather have a job at this pay than have 6 months at better pay then lose the job! sometimes they just can't look past the obvious, the reps at our place are very militant, when we have the union meetings we are lucky that there are enough sound minded people to tell them shut up and piss off!!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:24 am 
retrobike rider
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"A brand new car should be considered a luxury - fecksake theres thousands of perfectly decent used cars out there for a tenth of someones vanity..."

ive never liked our throw away society . my grandad had his aston for at least 25 years before he sold it aged 80 to get a replica bugati


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:38 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:21 pm
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Union bloke I heard on the radio was carping on about how good the mini product was (almost recession proof!) and how given current difficult climate there may be something coming up for them laid off in the next few months if them's lucky. sounded more like a company man than a union bloke.

Car industries overrated in my mind but it can't be right to give someone 1 hours notice after they've worked there for a couple of years?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:09 am 
Anglian Deputy AEC
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Surely it's the nature of agency work, if you work for an agency it's common knowledge. Agency workers cost companies more to hire, but are cheap to get rid of.

Union chappies droning on in that unique accent they all have, are they the representatives of the agency staff, probably not. Agency staff don't have a union.


Last edited by REKIBorter on Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:43 am 
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legrandefromage wrote:
A brand new car should be considered a luxury - fecksake theres thousands of perfectly decent used cars out there for a tenth of someones vanity... :roll:



Well said that man !! - I couldn't agree more. :D


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:54 am 
BoTM Winner / retrobike rider
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Interesting thread, especially since I'm a director of a recruitment (temp) agency. Not in that industry mind :wink:

BMW-Mini were quite entitled to act as they did. No 'employees' have been made redundant with no pay at one hours notice.

Along the lines of what Marcus (? MJN) said - some of these agency workers would have been earning 15-25% more per hour than some of their work colleagues who were employees of BMW. Its a premium that BMW (and lots of other companies) pay in order to utilise a truly flexible workforce and therefore meet market demands. The workers would have been well aware that their contract (for services) could end at any time.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:37 pm 
Mr Darcy
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MadCowKev wrote:
Interesting thread, especially since I'm a director of a recruitment (temp) agency. Not in that industry mind :wink:

BMW-Mini were quite entitled to act as they did. No 'employees' have been made redundant with no pay at one hours notice.

Along the lines of what Marcus (? MJN) said - some of these agency workers would have been earning 15-25% more per hour than some of their work colleagues who were employees of BMW. Its a premium that BMW (and lots of other companies) pay in order to utilise a truly flexible workforce and therefore meet market demands. The workers would have been well aware that their contract (for services) could end at any time.


Agree completely

Having worked with many contractors, they know the score. They can get more money, but less guarantees - its their choice.
No sympathy. The risk they take.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:04 pm 
Anglian Deputy AEC
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BMW-Mini have not sacked the workers, they have reviewed their use of agency staff. The agency employs them, not BMW-Mini.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:14 pm 
Gold Trader
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gump wrote:
MadCowKev wrote:
Interesting thread, especially since I'm a director of a recruitment (temp) agency. Not in that industry mind :wink:

BMW-Mini were quite entitled to act as they did. No 'employees' have been made redundant with no pay at one hours notice.

Along the lines of what Marcus (? MJN) said - some of these agency workers would have been earning 15-25% more per hour than some of their work colleagues who were employees of BMW. Its a premium that BMW (and lots of other companies) pay in order to utilise a truly flexible workforce and therefore meet market demands. The workers would have been well aware that their contract (for services) could end at any time.


Agree completely

Having worked with many contractors, they know the score. They can get more money, but less guarantees - its their choice.
No sympathy. The risk they take.


Completely agree with what both of you say. i also work in recruitment and the main reason people want to work on temporary contracts is because they will get paid more per hour and pay less tax than working permanently. I appreciate it might be different in manufacturing where wages are lower, but in my sector there are chaps who have been at a company on a "temp" contract for 2-3 years, paying minimum tax whilst earning £400-£800 per day via their own Ltd companies; a rate that would see them incur 40% tax on a significant portion of their earnings in a permanent role. They complain when they are the first to go in a down-turn, but the reason they get paid more is because they are supposed to make provision for themselves in the event of redundancy (or needing a holiday for that matter!).
Temporary workers and flexible working practices have given the UK the flexibility that attracted many of these companies here in the first place.

Rant over :)


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