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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:45 pm 
Old School Grand Master

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:55 pm
Posts: 8204
Location: New Forest, UK
I agree. recently for a night out in Southampton (18 miles away) I discovered that the only way home was to either drive or 60 mins by train and taxi via Bournemouth or ride home on my bike...or drive of course.

The last bus back is at 1730! And if I didn't want to use a taxi I'd have had to leave Southampton at 2100.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:01 pm 
Old School Grand Master
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:35 am
Posts: 12267
Location: Penarth
Bring back the infrastructure of this Country into Public ownership...that's what I say!
Correct me if I am wrong.....are we, the tax payers, still subsidising the Train Networks?????
In order to encourage people to leave their cars at home or, better still, get rid of them, we need a cheap(ish), cohesive and reliable alternative.
Stepping off my soap box now
:lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:16 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
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Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:34 pm
Posts: 26159
Location: Moomin Valley
I dont listen to the 'how much hidden pollution you produce' brigade - trains produce a shit load to manufacture and a shitload to power and are never full enough (despite the early morning/ evening crush) to warrant the 'low emissions' badge.

Then theres all the infrastucture that has to be included in the CO2 emmisions.

A 500 metre bus lane in Huntingdon cost about £1.9 million-ish. My old Headmaster, Peter Downes calculated that all the polution created by the subsiquent traffic jams during the work would take about 125 years to offset by the shorter journey times of the buses.

Its a cynical attitude I know but I'm tired of the bullshit we're fed.

My journey calculation was based on what cash I would physically have to hand over in order to get from A to B.


.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:23 pm 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 2981
Location: Super Sussex by the Sea
I believe it's called embedded energy - and it's a very important aspect of sustainable building these days. A good example of this is the story of where a Toyota Prius gets it's batteries from and how they are made. Yes, you end up with a supposedly green car but the battery alone does about three laps of the globe as well as all the horrible heavy metals that go into making them.

All to score some points with the knit your own yoghurt brigade (and dodge £8 in London)


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:32 pm 
Devout Dirtbag
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Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:15 pm
Posts: 104
Location: Northumberland
I get free Metro (Northern Tube!) train travel through work, but my nearest station is about 14 miles from home and its only another 3 miles to work from there then about another mile walk from the nearest station. Shame as it would save me a fortune.
I never use proper trains unless paid for by work as they are just too expensive to be viable.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:42 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:51 pm
Posts: 1299
[quote="rosstheboss"]Dirtjumper, you've made a very good point - trains are great if there's a station near where you a)live and b)need to get to.
quote]

i totally agree... when i lived in minehead you had to go to 20+miles to taunton just to get to a station.
i think exeter is in the minority of small cities which has a decent train service. i have a small station 1 minute walk from my flat which means if i'm feeling extra lazy i can catch an exeter/exmouth train down to st davids and then get the paignton train... theres like 6 stations here so you can basically get from one side of the city to the other by train!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:24 pm 
Gold Trader
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:22 pm
Posts: 1811
Location: St Ives,Cambridgeshire
Me and the young un recently went to York from Huntingdon for a combined total of £37.60 with reserved seats on the inter city part from Peterborough.

Certainly couldn't have done it for that by road, that was booked in advance though, but still a very good deal


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:27 am 
King of the Skip Monkeys
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Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:34 pm
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Location: Moomin Valley
Huntso wrote:
Me and the young un recently went to York from Huntingdon for a combined total of £37.60 with reserved seats on the inter city part from Peterborough.

Certainly couldn't have done it for that by road, that was booked in advance though, but still a very good deal



St. Ives to Peterborough? A backy on the Marin for the Youngun?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:09 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:12 pm
Posts: 3904
Location: The Shire
legrandefromage wrote:
I dont listen to the 'how much hidden pollution you produce' brigade - trains produce a shit load to manufacture and a shitload to power and are never full enough (despite the early morning/ evening crush) to warrant the 'low emissions' badge.

Then there's all the infrastructure that has to be included in the CO2 emissions.

A 500 metre bus lane in Huntingdon cost about £1.9 million-ish. My old Headmaster, Peter Downes calculated that all the polution created by the subsiquent traffic jams during the work would take about 125 years to offset by the shorter journey times of the buses.

Its a cynical attitude I know but I'm tired of the bullshit we're fed.

My journey calculation was based on what cash I would physically have to hand over in order to get from A to B.


.


That's a valid point, but the reality is much more complex than that.

It's impossible to argue one way or the other in simple terms, in truth its difficult to make anything other than informed assumptions.

We have created a society where we live in one place and work in another which, in honesty, makes no sense but for the foreseeable future we're probably stuck with it so the first step to more sustainable transport is to make sure the journey is necessary in the first place. It always amazes me how many journeys are made that never needed to happen but that's another discussion for another day.
Once unnecessary journeys have been eliminated ('Cos that would be SO easy!) then we need to make what we have work better.

On the face of it all you say is right, however if the trains (and other public transport) were cheaper and more convenient then it would be used more effectively and become more sustainable. More people on trains and buses means less in cars and lorries which eases congestion for everyone. It's true there is embodied energy (or more importantly carbon) in the manufacture of trains, buses and rail networks but the amounts pail into insignificance when compared to the manufacture of cars and road networks.

It's not about one form of transport being right and one being wrong. There is room for all, but lets use the most suited for the job and make sure we have a decent quality integrated system that works.

Back to the original point though. The rail service in this country stinks and costs way too much. The way things are going it will only get worse in the short term but I do hope for a brighter future. :D


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:50 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:10 am
Posts: 862
Location: Reading way
So long as the rail service is in private hands there is no brighter future. To get the investment they need to show profit returns and giving profit away in dividends is counter to constant improvement. That and the infrastructure is now too disjointed to work for the wider populace. Imagine the furore if the govt told Sustrans that they were ripping up all the bike routes to reinstate rail tracks!


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