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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:38 am 
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Location: Balham, London
I have been fixing a friend's marin and he needed a new left hand shifter, after finding one on Bike Radar for sale I went ahead and purchased from the user and paid with paypal. After a few weeks nothing arrived and as it was xmas the user blamed in on the xmas backlog at the post office. After xmas and still nothing has arrived and now the user is not answering emails or PM messages.

While it was only a small amount of money that was sent I'm posting this to highlight the fact that the money was not protected by papayl as the money was sent using paypal as a gift. I was not aware of this (yes, prob should have read the terms and conditions first).

I have tried to use the dispute resolution feature of paypal but as I sent funds with paypal using the new feature 'Paypal as a Gift' they will not let me continue for the following reason.

Quote:
We're sorry, but this transaction cannot be disputed because it is not a purchase of goods or services. Please contact the recipient directly.


As scammers are becoming more prevalent on web forums it seems that this type of scam could become more common so I though it was worth warning people of this problem. I hope that no-one else falls for type of scam as i'm sure we all assume our money if safe when using paypal and users with a paypal account are generally trustworthy.

I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has suffered the same thing :?:


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:10 am 
Gold Trader
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Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:47 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Somerset
I am sorry to hear that you lost your money, I haven't experienced the same thing and would only use the gift function for fellow Retro bikers and friends. like you say it's not worth the risk for people you don't know.

It's understandable that they don't offer the dispute resolution service to people using the gift function, after all they are not making any money out of it and resolving disputes can be a costly process.


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 Post subject: Dispute
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:20 pm 
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
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Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:03 pm
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Location: held captive by baby haggis in a cave in Scotland
I think Paypal are correct for once.
If you send money as a gift, they are not making fees out of the recipient as they normally would so any time they take on a dispute resolution is of no value to them, also if someone genuinely sends a gift, under what circumstance would that ever warrant a dispute? I cant think of one.
As for scammers it is something to be vigilant about. If you think hard about it you could say that those who pay for goods using the gift option, thus avoiding fees, are scammers, as they are defrauding Paypal. I think if people pay this way (and yes myself included) that if you get stung, you really cant go crying to paypal and expect help.

And no I dont endorse ar usually agree with Paypal but on this one I do.
Basically if you dont want to take the risk then pay the fees.
This is my take on the situation and not directed at any individual. As a fellow retrobiker I hate the fact you got ripped of in the first place.

Jamie
(forgets his coat and runs for the door)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:26 pm 
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Poke me if I'm being stupid, but all the paypal gifts I've payed to people have included a fee. How are you guys not paying a fee?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:28 pm 
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Surfr wrote:
Poke me if I'm being stupid, but all the paypal gifts I've payed to people have included a fee. How are you guys not paying a fee?


I think it depends on the amount; I paid a fee on a gift when buying a set of wheels at £130, but all the things I've bought at around £25 i've had no probs.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:32 pm 
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If you officially "give" something to someone then you are never going to have a comeback. I can see it on Judge Judy now...


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 Post subject: fees
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:43 pm 
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
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Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:03 pm
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Location: held captive by baby haggis in a cave in Scotland
Hi Surfr
I think if you have money in your paypal account or it comes direct from a bank account not a credit card then there are no fees with a gift. If you pay by credit card then the sender of the gift pays the fee.
I think :?
Jamie


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 Post subject: Re: fees
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:06 pm 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:36 pm
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Jamiedyer wrote:
Hi Surfr
I think if you have money in your paypal account or it comes direct from a bank account not a credit card then there are no fees with a gift. If you pay by credit card then the sender of the gift pays the fee.
I think :?
Jamie


That's what we eventually figured out a while back
I cannot use gift as the fee is always paid (mines comes off a C-Card), tried £5 all the way up to about £60 so I always pay as normal purchase. Sender gets full details of me, I of them and protection should be there.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:12 pm 
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I use a debit card for mine. I'll have to finish configuring my bank accounts tonight then if it will save me some cash.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:50 pm
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Location: Yorkshuh
Threaten the 'seller' with the Small Claims Court. It is free and easy to use (apparently - I have never used it). Regardless of how you paid the money, they have entered into an agreement to sell you something and they haven't upheld their end of the bargain. Collect all evidence of the transaction (emails, PMs, forum posts etc.) and get paper copies. Tell your seller you are doing this. If he is a chancer, there is a good chance that they will sh*t themselves and sort it out. If not, there is an even better chance that they will sh*t themselves when the court summons arrives. Apparently the majority of small claims never make it to court for this reason.


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