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 Post subject: owner not the dog
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:50 pm 
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
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Location: held captive by baby haggis in a cave in Scotland
I agree this situation is not good.
the dog should have been on a lead and under the owners control.
the dog could react to many things that could cause it to bite.
Huntso has some good pionts but really with the information given about 1 bite you are ready to condemn the dog whose owner did not have under control, and then compare it to a dog that savaged someone :roll:
I fully understand also protecting our kids but to punch a dog that has nipped someone does not teach it not to nip, it will only make the problem worse. a dog needs to learn behaviours through reward and discipline not through fear.
As for wanting to put down all rescued dogs, well that is a very uninformed statement.
The problem with bikes as I learnt from being a postman back in Australia, where we ride small motorbikes from house to house is that it is a hard thing to teach a dog not to chase. The dog is distrustful of the bike because it moves relatively quickly and is noisy, dog barks or chases bike to protect its house/yard etc. we deliver mail in box then ride off. To the dog he has been successful as we have ridden away and he takes the credit. Its teaching him a negative behaviour but there is no way round it without spending time with the owner and dog.
A lot of this stuff is taken as malice and viciousness rather than looking at the behaviour. Dont get me wrong I have had more than my share of dog bites from some real bastards but its working out why and then fixing it, and yaeh there are some dogs that are dangerous and the best thing is to put them down its just that this doesnt sound like one.
And I know whats bites are like mate, if you think dogs are bad try working with seals, I got bite last Saturday, chomped down on my left index finger into the knuckle. Antibiotics for the next two weeks as well so I can sympathise.
Take care and ride as best you can.
Jamie


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:18 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:10 am
Posts: 50
If this happen in the US, the dog owner would be sued, end of story. That's how it is here.

I remember a roommate in college told me his bitten father received $15,000 from an owner who didn't keep his dog on a leash when outside.

Personally, I despise dog owners who are careless, especially when a child get attack.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:23 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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Location: Wherever it is, I'm being just that little bit more Lance
Feed the dog ex-lax chocs (available from Boots and all good chemists) then laugh when it gets the squits and ruins the neighbours carpet. It'll serve them both right!


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 Post subject: Re: owner not the dog
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:43 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:10 am
Posts: 50
Jamiedyer wrote:
it is a hard thing to teach a dog not to chase. The dog is distrustful of the bike because it moves relatively quickly and is noisy, dog barks or chases bike to protect its house/yard etc.
Jamie


This reminds me of the time when I was interval training (on my road bike). There was a lonely dog standing by the side of the road. I was dead tired going up and down the hills. No energy left in my body and running on lactic acid. I forgot to eat breakfast. Anyway, on my way up a hill, this dog was looking at me funny. I slowly rode up the hill, trying not to make eye contact. After I passed the dog, and is about 15 feet away, the dog all of a sudden started barking and chasing me down.

Oh $hit! All of a sudden a burst of energy came to my legs as I sprinted up that hill in record time. Luckily, that dog got tired running uphill and gave up before I did 8)

The dog did come close to biting my leg and gave me a little scare.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:02 pm 
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I only meant rescued dogs that have been violently mistreated, not neglected and so on. Must admit I was less than clear on that point

Sorry, but disagree that if a dog goes to nip your child that you want to reward or discipline it, just want to make sure it doesn't actually bite them.
One smack on the nose isn't exactly a violent beating, but might make it think twice next time

The dog in question has now bitten twice, so is obviously not to be trusted and yes it could be a child next time so if it was mine it would be down the vets like a shot
Sometimes you cannot blame the owner anymore than if a person is inherently bad even if raised in a loving home, just a wrong un


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 Post subject: Bad dogs
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:48 am 
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
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A couple of pionts on this one just to clarify.
Huntso you wrote 'I punched it hard on the nose' not smack, so I was only responding to what you wrote. I also never meant to mean that the dog should be rewarded but it should be disciplined and then punished. The two things are different and to punish without discipline is useless.
I also didnt realise it had bitten twice and all the time unless I know the dog personally I wouldnt trust it.
Some dogs are just natural wrong uns but the majority of troubled dogs that I have come across are that way because of a lack of training or discipline. This is usaully down to owners not putting in the work. Some of them will never be ok with anyone and are dangerous, I have one near me that I wouldnt even walk down the street let alone ride down.
Cheers
Jamie


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:47 am 
Gold Trader
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Location: St Ives,Cambridgeshire
Fair points Jamie and think we basically agree and certainly don't want to argue over finer points :)
I said smack because I was describing one punch rather than repeated blows, but guess it did have a fair bit of force behind it.
Think most parents would react in the same way though and it was a gut reaction rather than a considered judgement

When I said had bitten twice I was referring to the dog in the original post which you said was being judged on one bite, which it wasn't.
That's when i think it gets worrying, if this one chap knows of two incidents does make you think there might have been more

I do agree that owners take a lot of blame for these dogs behaviour and hate to see cruelty as much as the next person, but you can't just ignore the risk to others safety and if that means drastic measures then so be it

Hope I haven't caused any problems with my comments and nothing wrong with reasoned debate, but these sorts of topics tend to throw up very different viewpoints which probably depend on previous encounters

Think we both just want dogs to be under control and for the owners to act responsibily, not gonna happen though is it :roll:

Cheers
Rich


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 Post subject: Dogs
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:24 pm 
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
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Location: held captive by baby haggis in a cave in Scotland
hey mate
Yeah I certainly dont want to fall out over a discussion about dog behaviour. I was just batting a few ideas about really, playing a bit of devils advocate sticking up for the dogs. I see a lot of them punished for bad owners really.
Just a bit of banter and not something I would want to fall out over with my biking buddies.
Cheers
Jamie


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:17 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
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Location: Moomin Valley
Huntso wrote:
This sort of story brings back memories of this poor little lad which happened locally to me.
200 stitches and damn lucky to survive, if owners know they have a biter, how can they keep it


Had this kid and his family in the car, I've never seen a kid so scared shitless.

I'm not a fan of dogs.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:29 pm 
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
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Location: Sunny Glasgow
The dog needs proper training,not killing
I wouldnt think you could just get a dog thats had a miserable life and expect it to blend in like nothing has happened it it
Force your neighbor to have the fella trained,saying you'll report him if he doesnt,but stress you dont want the dog killed[lets call it what it is]


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