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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:03 pm 
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gibbleking wrote:
heres a partial scan of a leaflet we give to my pupils in their cycling lessons

It's easy to scare kids with gruesome pictures. You could probably find pictures of a double amputee as a result of untreated malignant melanomas and show it to kids who wear short-sleeved shirts in summer.

There's probably a case to be made that all kids should wear long-sleeved shirts and broad-brimmed hats all summer. There's probably a case that parents should do likewise to set a good example. There's probably a case for obliging it by law. What do you think?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:04 pm 
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Maturity doesn't mean abdicating responsibility to a higher power - it means making reasonable decisions for yourself.

it also means making choices for those who are not mature enough to make the correct choice for themselves.(this was my meaning)we dont let kids play with matches saying its their own fault if they get burnt ,we stop them because it prevents the chance of something awful happening later...prevention is better in my book.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:06 pm 
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one-eyed_jim wrote:
gibbleking wrote:
heres a partial scan of a leaflet we give to my pupils in their cycling lessons

. What do you think?


I think you should wear a helmet ;) :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:07 pm 
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Harryburgundy wrote:
The trouble is, accidents seem to have a habit of happening when you least expect them.
Sure, do a full risk assessment before each ride..weigh up the probabilities etc.....exercise your right to choice and freedom....all of it will mean bugger all if, god forbid, you do have that accident, and suffer brain damage as a result of not wearing a helmet.

... or suffer permanent paralysis as a result of falling on that descent you wouldn't have attempted if you hadn't been wearing a helmet.

We all choose our own level of risk.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:10 pm 
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a simpler answer to the conundrum.....would you let your 8 year old child ride off road or on a mainroad without one.if the answer is no then i think there is no need to take this discussion further.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:18 pm 
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gibbleking wrote:
a simpler answer to the conundrum.....would you let your 8 year old child ride off road or on a mainroad without one.

It's not an answer to the question, because a child of 8 and a child of 12 and an adult are very different. There are main roads and main roads, and off road can mean a whole range of things.

There are bridleways and tow-paths I'd be happy to ride helmetless with a well-coordinated kid. An 8 year old probably shouldn't be on anything that could be called a main road, supervised or not. A mature 12 year old I'd allow to decide for himself.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:22 pm 
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i was generalising and not being specific as thats just not possible.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:30 pm 
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one-eyed_jim wrote:
Harryburgundy wrote:
The trouble is, accidents seem to have a habit of happening when you least expect them.
Sure, do a full risk assessment before each ride..weigh up the probabilities etc.....exercise your right to choice and freedom....all of it will mean bugger all if, god forbid, you do have that accident, and suffer brain damage as a result of not wearing a helmet.

... or suffer permanent paralysis as a result of falling on that descent you wouldn't have attempted if you hadn't been wearing a helmet.

We all choose our own level of risk.


:roll: You have a responsibility to mitigate those risks. In my humble opinion, if you ride without one...you are being irresponsible.
I just can't see any valid reason for NOT wearing one.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:46 pm 
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one-eyed_jim wrote:
gibbleking wrote:
a simpler answer to the conundrum.....would you let your 8 year old child ride off road or on a mainroad without one.

It's not an answer to the question, because a child of 8 and a child of 12 and an adult are very different. There are main roads and main roads, and off road can mean a whole range of things.

There are bridleways and tow-paths I'd be happy to ride helmetless with a well-coordinated kid. An 8 year old probably shouldn't be on anything that could be called a main road, supervised or not. A mature 12 year old I'd allow to decide for himself.


You seem to be forgetting the predicament you may be putting someone else in, a few good years back a ride in the Pentlands was cut short by the need to get someone off the top after they bust their head, no helmet. So helicopter out and a day spoiled through one riders selfish indulgence and vanity?

Or how about an accident which bears more injury due to no helmet, if this is caused by 'No Helmet' the drivers life may still be badly affected regardless of it being the bike riders choice. So regardless of it being up to the individual, an accident may affect someone else's life just as much as yours.

Or kids seeing an adult riding trails and jumps with no helmet, lets say that influence leaves the helmet their parent bought at the side of a jump, and the kid hurts his head, I feel it is part of social responsibility to set an example.

Though as an example, I am sure a cyclist did die due to a truck mirror hitting his helmet, I think it was something due to the helmet directing leverage and force in a certain manner the rider died instead of suffering a fractured skull?

I would like to see newer improved tests and methods into how helmets behave in an accident, and the effect they can have regarding neck and spine injury, not to mention the way they can apply leverage and direct force at certain angles.
For instance if you fall back, many helmets put more strain and pressure on the neck forcing it even further forward, and the same applies to a face plant where some helmets can force the neck back.
You also have side impacts with ground at speed, which can effectively twist your neck and head, due to the helmet gripping into the ground where a head may miss a few inches or lose some skin.

A lot of this does not seem to be tested against or have any proven protection. I remember seeing early tests which involved an impact straight on top of the helmet,which is nothing like an abrasive sideways impact with weight and leverage at speed.

I am also sure there are no proven statistics or figures regarding injuries caused due to no helmet versus helmet or any correlated figures regarding injuries actually caused by the helmet itself during an accident.

Out of interest does anyone change their helmet due to it's age?

Personally I still believe for the majority of riders and rider environments that a decent bicycle helmet is a good and responsible habit.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:49 pm 
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Harryburgundy wrote:
You have a responsibility to mitigate those risks.

Yes, but I'm aware of the limits to the protection that a helmet can provide. If I bail and take the easy way down helmetless, and you strap on your helmet and go for the big descent, who's being irresponsible? Possibly neither of us - we're just choosing our own personal risk comfort level.

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In my humble opinion, if you ride without one...you are being irresponsible.

In every circumstance? What about to go buy a paper? What about a quiet canal towpath? Where do you draw the line?

Quote:
I just can't see any valid reason for NOT wearing one.

Are there activities where you might conceivably fall (walking down stairs, for example) where you don't wear a helmet? If so, then you do see a valid reason.


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