Bike shops.

Not sure where this goes so...

I'm a novice bike builder, and while I can do most jobs myself, there's one or two I just can't/don't trust myself to yet, gear cables and such, that I might take a bike into a shop for.

So why is it that every bike shop I go to is sub-par when it comes to servicing?

I took an old Peugeot I was building into a singlespeed into my local shop last year for some odd bits (I'd unknowingly put an incorrect bb in, and some suspect crank arms). Two weeks pass and nothing was done to my bike, it was just sitting in plain sight on the shop floor where it was left two weeks prior. After enquiring I was told he was waiting on parts. It was done the next day, parts were magically 'found' on the shelf... Decided not to go there again, especially after hearing a rumour that the shop only had a mechanic one day a week.

Based on a recommendation next time I needed something doing (different mid-range road bike) I went to the late Surosa in Oldham, who weren't very friendly, and tried to put me off having work done to my bike by telling me it wasn't really worth working on unless the bike had sentimental value?! Then when I went to pick it up a very gloomy/disinterested seeming young salesperson tried to tell me it needed more work doing to it 'oh your cassette's worn, you need a new one, and a chain too'.

I've now gone to another shop with my Kona asking them to put a set of cables and a chain on it. First they told me to come back in 2 days as they were full, okay, I do, and they take it in second time round, quoting me £45ish to do it.
I get a call today saying it's done, oh your cassette (that I bought off this forum!) is worn, we've replaced that too, and serviced your bike, £72 please.

Eh? I told them I didn't ask for servicing or a new cassette, and they say they'll take it off then, reducing the cost by £23.
I'm still not happy, and I want to make sure I get a cassette and spacer of some description back when I get my bike back so I'm off to sort it out tomorrow. Could have asked before they start charging me almost £30 over quoted and doing things I didn't even ask for (to inflate labour costs?)!

Why do bike shops insist on swapping cassettes and chains together, is it a fleecing tactic or good practise?

And just in case I need one again, can anyone recommend a decent, honest bike shop about east Manchester?

Ghosty":fstjafv4 said:

Not sure where this goes so...

I'm a novice bike builder, and while I can do most jobs myself, there's one or two I just can't/don't trust myself to yet, gear cables and such, that I might take a bike into a shop for.

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Get yourself a copy of the park tools book, or get on the website itself, cables are easy if you have the right tools and some patience. With practice you can cable up a bike from scratch in half an hour.

There isn't actually anything complicated on a bike, except STIs and some suspension components. They are either fit for the bin if they break, or need a specialist to fix properly.

Ghosty":fstjafv4 said:

So why is it that every bike shop I go to is sub-par when it comes to servicing?

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I worked it out last year, in the 10 or 12 shops that have been my lbs since I started out cycling, I've only had 1 of the 20 or so mechanics do the job right.
He was ex mavic service course, and still spent many hours building wheels for mavic in his spare time, now retired.... And still doing wheels for mavic!

Add to that, most shops don't care about old stuff, it's generally a pain to work on, needs continuous fettling, and is never quite right......

Ghosty":fstjafv4 said:

Why do bike shops insist on swapping cassettes and chains together, is it a fleecing tactic or good practise?

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Unless you know exactly the mileage of both, it's good practice to swap both. Leaving either alone is a recipe for customer complaints.

Aaah, the good old why do Bike-shops suck thread... I'm afraid modern bike shops and retro bikes don't mix. If you're lucky you might find the old school mom and pops shop where some old grumpy guy is running the shop and that guy actually knows all the old bikes you bring in. He'll charge you some realistic amounts for the repairs and will be quite helpful. I heard those mythical shops do exist, unfortunately most modern shops just want to sell you the newest gear and have no interest in retro stuff. Most of their mechanics are some young kids with barely any training and they certainly have no clue what to do with your old bike. I gave up on bike shops a long time ago. Anytime I had any repairs that required specialized tools I went to bike shops in my area just to be turned down. I had to suck it up and buy the tools myself and do everything myself, needless to say no bike shop is getting my business (I'm buying everything online). Bottom line: learn to do all those jobs yourself. It'll be cheaper, faster (sometimes) and more satisfying to fix your bike yourself. gear cables and drive-train work aren't really that difficult once you start to do it. Do your homework,then give it a try. Fair enough sometimes you'll mess something up, you'll need a bunch of new tools but take the jobs one at a time. It's not rocket science.
Oh the cassette and chain swap together thing... that really depends on how worn the drive-train is. The bike shop might be right to change them together if you never changed the chain and it wore out the cassette so badly that a new chain will skip and shift like crap on it. Buy a chain-wear gauge and change your chain accordingly, then your more expensive cassette will last a long time. Those jobs are rather simple to do at home.

'Durin' the war...'

WHEN I worked at Rutland Cycling (Grafham) in 2011, the 'other' mechanic was appalled at what I would take in for repair and service and the manager (even then some 12 years my junior) was bemused but let me get on with it.

Service income went up 10%, word got out and I was suddenly the person to go to for getting older stuff refurbished - from 1970's Bob Jackson tandems to early 1990's Dave Yates and a lot of chuff in between.

Budget parts were pennies and the customers were told so and that they may not last as long as the parts they were replacing, but, the customer was happy that their bike was being repaired and often much cheaper than they had been quoted elsewhere, especially Hafords.

Then the Halfords bikes started coming in, badly assembled and some were cracked a few months into their purchase so more work came in, opinions given, bikes returned and more sales. I would have ended up running the workshop.

But, I hadnt counted on that 'other' mechanic... He went out of his way to drip poison into everything that I did (I didnt find this out until 2 years on). He didnt want the crappy bikes, he wanted the carbon and the Di2 and the power tap brigade and made sure I was sacked at the earliest available opportunity.

So, in short, that gives you a small window into the background of a large busy workshop and the pissy politics that completely ruin what should be a fun job.

This guy is currently living my dream and having met him on and off over the years I strongly and heartily recommend him as he's everything I tried and to be at Grafham and shouldnt be too far from you

http://www.rideandrepair.co.uk/

Unit 4H Sutton Mill
Gunco Lane
Macclesfield
SK11 7JL

Re:

Find your local retrobikers in the area, they rltend to have the tools and ability between them.
Probably do it for a chat as well.


Chains are cheap, Max a tenner for a quality one. Cassettes similar to now, so for 20 quid well worth changing one if the other is unknown about. Also much easier than the faf of working out which has gone.

Problem is most chainrings have probably worn as well. It can get expensive then.

legrandefromage":21ir2a12 said:

This guy is currently living my dream and having met him on and off over the years I strongly and heartily recommend him as he's everything I tried and to be at Grafham and shouldnt be too far from you

http://www.rideandrepair.co.uk/

Unit 4H Sutton Mill
Gunco Lane
Macclesfield
SK11 7JL

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Fully recommend him as a decent chap, he might bore you to death with unimportant M numbers, a collection of old bikes and a hankering for doing the job properly.

Known by a lot of people on here.

He does courses on fixing your bike yourself (fool doing himself out of a job ;-))

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Ken Fosters in Chorlton has a good appreciation of old stuff... Last time I was in they had the bosses collection if old road bikes in display

If I may, I'd like to impart the perspective from the other side of the shop counter.

It sounds like the OP hasn't had a terribly good run with shops, however there is something deeply pernicious about what seems to be a never-ending online war of words doing every small bike shop, medium sized bike shop and mega-chain bike shop down. Not all bike shops are any good, this is true, it is also true of any other aspect of retail or the service industry and places live and die by their reputation. The extra facet to the difficulty in running a bike shop is that online sales have completely emaciated their parts revenue, and also grossly exaggerated customer expectation of when and how things should be done/should arrive.

A common(ish) scenario: Customer arrives at the shop with their old bike, said old bike has been sat in the Garden for a year, open to the elements, and is a low end 1970s 'town' bike. The customer decided this morning that he would like the bike fixed so they can use it that afternoon, unfortunately it's summer and everybody else would like their bike fixed, but have got their bike to the shop first. Annoyed at having been told it may be a couple of days the customer then requires an exact price of fixing their bike based on the 5-10 minutes the shop can spare to look at it, the 26 x 1 3/8 tyres are knackered, the cottered crank doesn't turn and the Sturmey rear hub will not engage gear. Cue many more minutes of explaining all this, and the fact that the chain has rusted, all the cables need replacing and wheel nuts are seized in place. Cue many more minutes of explaining why we can't "just make it work" for about £20.

I work in a shop that tries to fix anything if we can, we love old bikes, we specialise in having the parts, we go out of our way to have all the obscure tyre sizes, our prices on parts and accessories are usually 10% below RRP, we will build you exactly the bike you want, down to the colour, we can source you a NOS 53 tooth 7400 DA chain ring if that's the thing you 'need' to keep your bike going, we never say no to a job if we think we can fix it and if we can't fix it we won't charge you, we have 1" thread cutting tools for forks, French BBs and Headsets, we have whole Campagnolo and Shimano groupsets from the 80s, we don't do any work on anyone's bike until we have spoken to them on the phone first to confirm what the cost is, we sell products we believe in, we all ride bikes and are interested in vintage bikes - is everybody happy? No.

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Varies a lot.

But it seems very difficult to find that magic combination of a friendly bike shop owner (neither grumpy, or looks down on you/your bike) who charges reasonable prices and knows their stuff. You might get lucky, and find one or two of those characteristics - but all three? That's unicorn territory.

For example, on one very rare occasion - I needed to be smart for work, and the Brompton's rear wheel got a puncture. So I thought, I'll pop into the bike shop and ask them to do it. They suggested £20. I'd mentally prepared for a tenner - but £20 for replacing a tube? I ended up doing it myself.

I'd gone into them because a few months earlier, they'd charged £40 to replace the rear tyre with a nice new Marathon one and trued a bad buckle. That had seemed a fair price as there was likely at least half an hours work there, and the cost of a tyre.

Some of you will know my travails with disc brakes. None of the bike shops I've been to have ever been able to get my rear brake working any better than I have ie works for about 100 miles before the frame shuddering groans set in.

Others have replaced parts without asking. One left a tyre lever inside the tyre after truing a wheel. Another charged me £20 just to fail to diagnose a worn out chain/cassette. I'd taken it in with a chain that was slipping and asked if they could fix it. After two weeks, they said they couldn't but wanted £20. One was so grumpy that he simply chucked the tools to replace my bottom bracket at me while he disappeared to the local cafe.

Others, however, have been great. Even Halfords, if you find the right lad. But a combination of increasing prices, variable service and availability of almost any part online means it's often cheaper and less hassle to do it yourself.