Ricciardo making hay, whilst Rosberg and Hamilton squabble..

Coulthard says it's good for F1, Webber questions whether the situation is sustainable (I suspect more about next year, than this...), Brundle analyses the detail and makes comparisons, and Jordan says they're behaving like spoilt children.

Thing is, we want a bit of action, we want a bit of stepping over the line, we want to actually see some drive and passion from the drivers in fighting for the / their championship.

Meanwhile, Ricciardo goes from strength to strength, humbly and joyously getting on with it, and getting the most out of his car and tyres.

There's been some simmering disquiet for quite some time, bubbling under the surface between Rosberg and Hamilton. Rumoured sneaky use of extreme engine modes when they shouldn't - you know who you are, and it's not big nor clever, you've embarrassed your school, but most importantly, you've embarrassed yourself - radio instructions being ignored - and for my money, Hamilton was completely right to carry on doing what he did in the last-but-one race, it was up to Rosberg to get closer and actually show willing and able to go quicker and get near to a pass, rather than simply Hamilton slow down and disadvantage himself to help Rosberg finish ahead of him.

I suspect there's a lot more to the various arguments than is made public, both seem to have their respective axes to grind, and from where I'm sat, over the course of the season, neither has shown they have fair claim to either the moral high-ground, or a convincing superior performance. Hamilton shows some flashes of brilliance, and Rosberg seems to be less affected by his emotions (over the season...)

It's said that Rosberg has been punished - presumably some kind of financial penalty - but are still free to race. Brundle's analysis points to some malice aforethought and some bad blood come to bite Hamilton.

Despite the interests of the team, though, and their own - or partisan positions - how is it all a bad thing for the audience? I think it's great, and if Mercedes as an organisation were as smart as they'd have us all believe, they'd be capitalising on it (assuming they're not already...)

Whatever happens, now, it'd have to be complete meltdown for them to not win both championships - not impossible, but highly implausible - so why aren't the savvy people realising that, and thinking more smart about the whole affair?

I'll grant you, in a closer season, without such a compelling advantage, perhaps they'd need to be more circumspect, but this is like JB's championship year. That car and one of it's drivers is going to win the championship, even if there's a couple more Spa moments for them two. All the time, there's mileage in this acrimony.

But people and commentators shaking their heads at it all, are simply just not getting it. For better or worse, this battle between the two is giving F1 more attention and interest than without it, and things being more civilised. And what makes the world of F1 go around? Money, honey.

And yes, I'll say it again, meanwhile Ricciardo is making hay, not just in his performances, but in his standing and gravitas among the drivers.

I want to see Vettel improve, and show that when he's firing on all cylinders, that smiling aussie still cuts the mustard.

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Who cares? As long as Hamilton's either being beaten, cheated or perceived to be being cheated there will be a lot of happy campers.

If Alonso isn't winning (and let's be honest despite pumping Kimi all ways up he's not going to win anything in a Ferrari) then I'm an anyone but Hamilton man. Nico being his team mate just makes it all the sweeter.

Unfortunately I can see the double points race being pivotal, Nico needs to extend the lead past 50 to avoid any shenanigans in that last race.

Ricciardo's blatant superiority is a beautiful counterpoint to Vettel's extended dominance.

It will be a permanent footnote to put those four championships into context, to those who pay attention to such things at least.

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technodup":h5zvjfoo said:

Who cares? As long as Hamilton's either being beaten, cheated or perceived to be being cheated there will be a lot of happy campers.

If Alonso isn't winning (and let's be honest despite pumping Kimi all ways up he's not going to win anything in a Ferrari) then I'm an anyone but Hamilton man. Nico being his team mate just makes it all the sweeter.

Unfortunately I can see the double points race being pivotal, Nico needs to extend the lead past 50 to avoid any shenanigans in that last race.

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Why the hatred for Lewis? He his a great driver and without all his bad luck this year he would undoubtedly be leading the championship. You can't deny it, he knows how to race a car. I hope he can pull enough back to challenge again, and I think he probably will.

Excellent season so far, my stand out driver so far this year has to be the new flying finn Bottas. Always outperforms his more experienced team mate in a that looks to be on a return to greatness. C'mon Bottas and Williams.

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Harryburgundy":2r7kiefn said:

Why the hatred for Lewis? He his a great driver and without all his bad luck this year he would undoubtedly be leading the championship. You can't deny it, he knows how to race a car. I hope he can pull enough back to challenge again, and I think he probably will.

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I just don't like him. I don't like the earrings, the attitude, the post race interviews when he's been beaten, the fact he blames the team, hints at favouritism etc etc. Yes he can drive a car quickly, but as for the overall package he's well down the pecking order. As can be evidenced by one title in 7 (soon to be 8 ) years. Going by him and the British F1 media arselickers you'd think he'd done a Vettel. Plus he only won in 08 by his mate Glock letting him past on the last corner.

The real travesty in F1 is that Ferrari haven't given Alonso a decent car for four years. Can you imagine him in the Merc? Or the Red Bull of the last few years? Or this years Williams? He'd destroy everyone. Forza Fernando.

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Harryburgundy":2vtjhsys said:

technodup":2vtjhsys said:

Who cares? As long as Hamilton's either being beaten, cheated or perceived to be being cheated there will be a lot of happy campers.

If Alonso isn't winning (and let's be honest despite pumping Kimi all ways up he's not going to win anything in a Ferrari) then I'm an anyone but Hamilton man. Nico being his team mate just makes it all the sweeter.

Unfortunately I can see the double points race being pivotal, Nico needs to extend the lead past 50 to avoid any shenanigans in that last race.

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Why the hatred for Lewis? He his a great driver and without all his bad luck this year he would undoubtedly be leading the championship. You can't deny it, he knows how to race a car. I hope he can pull enough back to challenge again, and I think he probably will.

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Whilst I can't quite stoop to the levels of Techno's dislike of Hamilton, nor aspire to his levels of adulation of Alonso, I'm loosely there. All the same, though, Techno says there's precious little chance of him winning with Ferrari. Never stopped Schumacher, did it.

As for Hamilton, I think it's the pure drama, the occasional petulance, and the emotional rollercoaster I find rather unbecoming and undermines him, really - well I say that in terms of drivers I admire - but purely from a business perspective for F1 he's money in the bank for the foreseeable.

Quite clearly, he does have lotsa talent and ability - to wit, Techno - he rattled Alonso in Hamilton's rookie season so much, Alonso spat his dummy, and couldn't better him. 2 x WDC vs precocious rookie. And I don't subscribe to McLaren particularly favouring Hamilton, that year, per se - I think they were just unwilling to have Alonso continue to demand default no. 1 status, when the performance wasn't convincing, I don't think they were predisposed to naturally favour Hamilton - it was both their first season as drivers for McLaren, Hamilton a well known (to the team) rookie, but Alonso a prize, 2 x WDC scalp. Nobody pays to have Alonso drive for them, but starts out with bias for a rookie.

The problem, that year, was a burgeoning, unrequited sense of expectation, as opposed to purely favouritism.

From a pure business / team perspective, perhaps it would have made sense for them to do so, one way, or another, they most certainly snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, that year.

All the same, it's the pure, tedious, fecking drama that he seems to let get in the way of his temperament that irks me about Hamilton. That, and the Ali G moment, the fecking earrings and tattoos - and carefully exposed arms at times, the outbursts, like the tweeting a telemetry graph out of pique, the whole deliberately crashing thing, with the little twist of playing the victim. There's something going on, there, that's perhaps great from a dramatic perspective, but undermines his talent, somewhat.

The last race in Spa highlighted something to me - an almost whingy petulance from Hamilton after the incident. Don't get me wrong - he was, largely, right to feel aggrieved. But the way he sounded about wanting to park the car - well he sounded like his chin had fallen. The logic made all the sense in the world - but logic and calm, rational decisions are hardly cliche for him. Here's the thing - somebody like Alonso, or Schumacher before him - were they in that position, and thinking logically, the team would likely listen and pay heed, or both would be driving like they stole it.

Hamilton didn't sound convincing with the logic - he just sounded like he was fed up and wanted to park it, and clearly, didn't sound convincing on tactics or have the natural gravitas to command such a thing within the team.

The whole thing about playing mind games? Well he may have an edge in terms of pure speed and natural ability over Rosberg, but that whole mind games thing? It's backfiring on him.

The hint is that Rosberg drove in a no-compromise way, because of being fed-up with how Hamilton had previously driven, when they were at close quarters. The conventional wisdom is that most, if not all, the fault lay with Rosberg. But sometimes, previous actions have consequence. They've probably both learned something about each other over this, all of which will probably not be more than open secrets for some time. Whilst it's true that Rosberg could and perhaps should have kept his powder drier for longer, perhaps there might just be something to whether Hamilton could have been a little more circumspect when being challenged by his team-mate, too.

Neither will want to listen to any team-orders, now - they've both, one way, or another, burned their bridges, there. And both will likely be just that bit more nervy about close quarter driving with each other, too.

Alonso I've got great admiration for, even after 07, which I think did him no favours. All conquering? I'm not entirely sure, but certainly in any scenario, you'd expect him to extract the most, and be consistent, and indefatigable in his effort and commitment. All the same, though, for those that talk about how he is so great, yet has no chance with Ferrari? Well surely that's all going into the mix of "greatness" because I can think of another driver in semi-recent times, where some were inclined to say the same when they first went to Ferrari.

I'm not about to do a monkey dance or do that whole no-bandwagon-too-slow thing about Vettel, this year - not that I've ever been particularly a fan of his. His team have explained why he's found it such a challenge, this year (lack of feedback from the by-wire braking system, in an area he previously had a tactile advantage), yet all the same, I'm thoroughly enthused about Ricciardo, and most hopeful about Bottas.

To revisit something I mentioned in my OP, though - this tantrum within Mercedes between Rosberg and Hamilton isn't a bad thing, nor an undesirable thing. It may need strong management by the team to still get what they want out of it, but all the same, there's money men all over F1 rubbing their hands together about it. People should be careful about what they complain about, and what they wish for - because the savvy would be capitalising on it, not seeing it as a huge problem.

Don't get me wrong, I get the whole racing ethos, that without always striving for the maximum result, and not merely settling, will see compromised achievements - but baby / bathwater. There's surely a way to ensure that they win the WDC and WCC with such a performance advantage, even if on occasion there's the odd blunderbuss to the foot. If within the team, they aren't strong enough to manage that, without killing the goose that lays the golden eggs, then quite clearly they need to drag somebody in, who can. 'cos how Wolff and Lauda responded after the Spa race? Completely understandable as a response from people involved in the team, but pretty weak from people supposedly managing the situation.

And whilst I have the utmost respect for Lauda, I remain unconvinced that great drivers make particularly good team bosses - useful within a team, yes, great at running them or being the voice of authority? Merely adding to my established take on it.

Why did Brawn leave? That's a question both Mercedes and us as an audience should be asking. Because he was just, simply, better at all this.

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Neil":k463o8sl said:

Alonso I've got great admiration for, even after 07, which I think did him no favours. All conquering? I'm not entirely sure, but certainly in any scenario, you'd expect him to extract the most, and be consistent, and indefatigable in his effort and commitment. All the same, though, for those that talk about how he is so great, yet has no chance with Ferrari? Well surely that's all going into the mix of "greatness" because I can think of another driver in semi-recent times, where some were inclined to say the same when they first went to Ferrari.

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God only knows what Ferrari have been doing for four years but I don't think you can lay the blame at Fernando's door. Getting shot of Domenicali, trying to get Newey, there's obviously weaknesses they're trying to address.

Plus as you alluded to with Merc losing Brawn you could say the same for Ferrari and the post Schumacher years.

Latterly at McLaren Hamilton was scathing of the car and the team, whereas Alonso (mostly) keeps his counsel when he clearly expects more. That is the difference. Both great drivers. Alonso has class with it. Hamilton couldn't spell it.

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technodup":v4dotonc said:

Neil":v4dotonc said:

Alonso I've got great admiration for, even after 07, which I think did him no favours. All conquering? I'm not entirely sure, but certainly in any scenario, you'd expect him to extract the most, and be consistent, and indefatigable in his effort and commitment. All the same, though, for those that talk about how he is so great, yet has no chance with Ferrari? Well surely that's all going into the mix of "greatness" because I can think of another driver in semi-recent times, where some were inclined to say the same when they first went to Ferrari.

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God only knows what Ferrari have been doing for four years but I don't think you can lay the blame at Fernando's door.

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I'm not - I'm just saying that it's not purely institutional, that's all.

Those that spouted that trite cliche that Ferrari couldn't achieve that same willing formula that some of the more clinical teams could, were firmly put in their place in the Schumie years. Now I'm not going to say it was all him, but he had the gravitas to coalesce a capable management structure, ethos and ethic.

technodup":v4dotonc said:

Getting shot of Domenicali, trying to get Newey, there's obviously weaknesses they're trying to address.

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No doubt - and it's often that bit of revisionism that goes on in F1, that whilst I think it's mostly pointless, all the same it's a bit of tokenism for change. Have to say, though, since he's left, it's rather hard to see the progress. Same with McLaren and Whitmarsh.

technodup":v4dotonc said:

Latterly at McLaren Hamilton was scathing of the car and the team, whereas Alonso (mostly) keeps his counsel when he clearly expects more. That is the difference. Both great drivers. Alonso has class with it. Hamilton couldn't spell it.

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Well there's certainly something to wearing his heart on his sleeve that becomes so fecking tedious with Hamilton, I'll give you that.

And I'm far from his biggest fan, and tend towards appreciating Alonso. All the same, side-by-side, rookie season for Hamilton - like him, or loathe him, he can drive.

His dramas, foibles and weaknesses? Hardly what I personally see as admirable, but it's the sort of human vulnerability that has some thinking he's a tortured genius. And whether, or not, he's good value for money, in terms of the sport / audience (differentiating that from purely as a driver...)

Bad luck follows Hamilton around like a bad smell, and successful brits seem to be followed around by dastardly germans too.

I'm all for wheel to wheel racing and a bit of bodywork exchanged but what Rosberg did was purely cynical and so bloody obvious, it reeks of desperation.

I'm not Hamilton's biggest fan by any means, but he could have been champ at least three times by now if it wasn't for bad luck and some crazy f*ck ups from his team, even I know that you shouldn't let your tyres get down to the canvas....