The Lance Armstrong Story - Stop at Nothing on iPlayer
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Saw it last night . What an ahole . I'd like to know what he's doing now . On a lighter note , we now have a drugs cheat commenting on itv coverage . Take a bow Mr Millar .
Like many , used to be a fan of road racing , now I just don't want to know .
Thanks for that , all those that tried to cheat , and some still continue to
Mike
Saw it last night . What an ahole . I'd like to know what he's doing now . On a lighter note , we now have a drugs cheat commenting on itv coverage . Take a bow Mr Millar .
Like many , used to be a fan of road racing , now I just don't want to know .
Thanks for that , all those that tried to cheat , and some still continue to
Mike
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As was said on another thread, guess you've given on most other sports too Mike? Or are you just penalising cycling because of the rigourous testing and publicising regime?
Millar was a cheat, but his experience has shown he was pressured into drugs via team, sponsors etc. rather than orchestrating a drugs syndicate.
What about students popping pills pre exams, business execs popping indigestion pills or stress pills to keep them at the top. Are they not cheats too?
As was said on another thread, guess you've given on most other sports too Mike? Or are you just penalising cycling because of the rigourous testing and publicising regime?
Millar was a cheat, but his experience has shown he was pressured into drugs via team, sponsors etc. rather than orchestrating a drugs syndicate.
What about students popping pills pre exams, business execs popping indigestion pills or stress pills to keep them at the top. Are they not cheats too?
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i watched this last night, left me pissed off even more at armstrong.
i was a fan, not specifically more than any other rider though but i was taken in by it all, beats cancer etc, comes back stronger, awesome . . . but no.
what gets my goat about it all was how much he ruined other peoples lives to protect his lies, not to mention how arrogant he must be to tell a doctor (during his initial cancer discovery) about all the drugs he was doing in earshot of the frankie and betsy andreu and then tell them not to say anything ever about it especially knowing that betsy didn't like him and would like to but was afraid enough of him that generally she wouldn't.
firing riders who didn't dope (enough) to be useful for him, threatening employees like the irish girl who was his masseur, and she didn't even blab, it was reported that she did but she hadn't.
and greg lemond, he was asked a question by an interviewer, the "what if" question, maybe he shouldn't have answered it but he did, "it's either a miracle or the greatest cover up ever" which drew armstrongs hatred, his company was ruined, his sexuality questioned, his character called into question, suggestions of drink/drugs in cycling/drugs in personal life and god knows what else.
armstrong set out to ruin anyone who he felt was attacking him, to be so influential that he could get a federal case dropped at that high level with no questions.
i was duped by him, i used to love watching him ride, i cheered for him, i hate having the wool pulled over my eyes, and so far the worst punishment he got was to be interviewed by Oprah not the authorities like alot of the others did.
even though i hated Landis for doping (so obviously aswel) i now have some respect for him for talking, he had nothing to lose and he must of thought, my ban has finished, you won't help me back into a pro team after all i did for you as a rider, sod it, i'm gonna stitch you up for being such a git!
the only thing i wish now though is relevant to Greg Lemond, Greg is awesome, i love seeing old clips of him riding etc, since all the armstrong stuff happened which affected Lemond it inevitably took over his life in one way or another, whether that was due to law suits or bike trade or opinions in interviews, his life became about defending himself against armstrong in his business and personal life, it's now a year or so since armstrongs fall from grace when he admitted everything, i hope Greg can put it completely behind him and never have to mention it again, you've won Greg and i am really glad for you but i now wish you'd distance your self from it all by not talking about it anymore because it's getting to the point where discussing armstrong is defining you as a person as opposed to being defined as being a great cyclist and bike brand designer/owner.
i watched this last night, left me pissed off even more at armstrong.
i was a fan, not specifically more than any other rider though but i was taken in by it all, beats cancer etc, comes back stronger, awesome . . . but no.
what gets my goat about it all was how much he ruined other peoples lives to protect his lies, not to mention how arrogant he must be to tell a doctor (during his initial cancer discovery) about all the drugs he was doing in earshot of the frankie and betsy andreu and then tell them not to say anything ever about it especially knowing that betsy didn't like him and would like to but was afraid enough of him that generally she wouldn't.
firing riders who didn't dope (enough) to be useful for him, threatening employees like the irish girl who was his masseur, and she didn't even blab, it was reported that she did but she hadn't.
and greg lemond, he was asked a question by an interviewer, the "what if" question, maybe he shouldn't have answered it but he did, "it's either a miracle or the greatest cover up ever" which drew armstrongs hatred, his company was ruined, his sexuality questioned, his character called into question, suggestions of drink/drugs in cycling/drugs in personal life and god knows what else.
armstrong set out to ruin anyone who he felt was attacking him, to be so influential that he could get a federal case dropped at that high level with no questions.
i was duped by him, i used to love watching him ride, i cheered for him, i hate having the wool pulled over my eyes, and so far the worst punishment he got was to be interviewed by Oprah not the authorities like alot of the others did.
even though i hated Landis for doping (so obviously aswel) i now have some respect for him for talking, he had nothing to lose and he must of thought, my ban has finished, you won't help me back into a pro team after all i did for you as a rider, sod it, i'm gonna stitch you up for being such a git!
the only thing i wish now though is relevant to Greg Lemond, Greg is awesome, i love seeing old clips of him riding etc, since all the armstrong stuff happened which affected Lemond it inevitably took over his life in one way or another, whether that was due to law suits or bike trade or opinions in interviews, his life became about defending himself against armstrong in his business and personal life, it's now a year or so since armstrongs fall from grace when he admitted everything, i hope Greg can put it completely behind him and never have to mention it again, you've won Greg and i am really glad for you but i now wish you'd distance your self from it all by not talking about it anymore because it's getting to the point where discussing armstrong is defining you as a person as opposed to being defined as being a great cyclist and bike brand designer/owner.
M-Power
Old School Grand Master
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Very articulately put. I'm in the minority here but IMO in the bigger picture he is still a hero to me and many others 'despite' his abuse of banned substances. He built a huge international following and did A LOT to raise awareness for seriously and terminally ill people and other causes. There was huge pressure on him, always, to deliver another win. It's not an excuse but its an explanation IMO. Abuse of banned substances has always been rife and always will be in highly lucrative competitive sports. The scientists will always be one step ahead though. In the future eugenics will provide a new edge. The Chinese are already working on this.
jonnyboy666":22576g0f said:
Very articulately put. I'm in the minority here but IMO in the bigger picture he is still a hero to me and many others 'despite' his abuse of banned substances. He built a huge international following and did A LOT to raise awareness for seriously and terminally ill people and other causes. There was huge pressure on him, always, to deliver another win. It's not an excuse but its an explanation IMO. Abuse of banned substances has always been rife and always will be in highly lucrative competitive sports. The scientists will always be one step ahead though. In the future eugenics will provide a new edge. The Chinese are already working on this.
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I don't think the fact that he doped is what has disgraced him. like you say, many have, many will, either through the pressure of others or the willingness to cheat. What sets him apart is basically what JB said - masterminding a drug system, using others (not just doing it himself), and setting them up as fall guys, corruption at the highest level, death threats, attempting to destroy others' reputation and businesses ..... and so on and onM-Power":3t34b4m3 said:
I have to say I'm divided.
I don't like how he went about things and how he treated people. But I de-couple that from the drugs thing. When he was racing, who in the peloton, who had an outside chance of doing anything, was clean?
Yes, from much I've read, there's a lot of unsavoury aspects to how he did what he did - and I can understand why certain people pursued him. He rather courted that.
All the same, bully, arrogant, deplorable or otherwise - whilst all of that may well be true, the drug problem in cycling didn't start or end with Armstrong - and on that aspect, and that aspect alone, I find it rather distasteful how much of the drug problem is being scapegoated as him.
I don't like how he went about things and how he treated people. But I de-couple that from the drugs thing. When he was racing, who in the peloton, who had an outside chance of doing anything, was clean?
Yes, from much I've read, there's a lot of unsavoury aspects to how he did what he did - and I can understand why certain people pursued him. He rather courted that.
All the same, bully, arrogant, deplorable or otherwise - whilst all of that may well be true, the drug problem in cycling didn't start or end with Armstrong - and on that aspect, and that aspect alone, I find it rather distasteful how much of the drug problem is being scapegoated as him.
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Cycling has been my number one sport since I started racing in 1990 .
I've never been a fan of the tours personally , more interested in classics . And yes I am bitter about going to Roubaix and Flanders on numerous occasions to cheer on my heroes only to find out they were frauds . The Museews , the Hincapies and others who I found to inspire me to train harder , to race harder . The sport has been let down by these people , as have the riders who have raced clean to finish somewhere in the top 10 . Millar had no more pressure to cheat than Boardman had . Did he cheat ?
There will always be people who think they can cheat the system , and there will always be doctors to help them to . Armstrong is not seen by me as a scapegoat , but as someone who created the biggest , most long standing doping regime and as such , has created the worst drugs scandal in sport IMO . The fact that he manipulated and threatened people into silence makes him even more evil .
pigman":3mxn9san said:
Cycling has been my number one sport since I started racing in 1990 .
I've never been a fan of the tours personally , more interested in classics . And yes I am bitter about going to Roubaix and Flanders on numerous occasions to cheer on my heroes only to find out they were frauds . The Museews , the Hincapies and others who I found to inspire me to train harder , to race harder . The sport has been let down by these people , as have the riders who have raced clean to finish somewhere in the top 10 . Millar had no more pressure to cheat than Boardman had . Did he cheat ?
There will always be people who think they can cheat the system , and there will always be doctors to help them to . Armstrong is not seen by me as a scapegoat , but as someone who created the biggest , most long standing doping regime and as such , has created the worst drugs scandal in sport IMO . The fact that he manipulated and threatened people into silence makes him even more evil .
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i forgot one point earlier, the backers of the team, the sponsors dropped armstrong and his team but there were other backers behind the team, if memory serves armstrong part owned the team with a few others, bill stapleton? so i'm betting they knew the score, but armstrong still protects them from being investigated, i think he's scared as apparently they are pretty scary people capable of financially destroying armstrong in the way he did to others.
so who's watching the other film about it tonight then?
i forgot one point earlier, the backers of the team, the sponsors dropped armstrong and his team but there were other backers behind the team, if memory serves armstrong part owned the team with a few others, bill stapleton? so i'm betting they knew the score, but armstrong still protects them from being investigated, i think he's scared as apparently they are pretty scary people capable of financially destroying armstrong in the way he did to others.
so who's watching the other film about it tonight then?
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