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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:30 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
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MikeD wrote:
The bike industry is its own worst enemy sometimes. Especially this year, when as well as the standard six months between new bikes arriving in shops and the next lot of new bikes being announced (that six months having the crappiest weather of the year as Jon says), they're all faffing about with wheel sizes too. Seems to me that anyone in the market for a new MTB right now is just going to buy nothing until the 29/650B thing settles out. No-one wants to get stuck with Betamax. Or worse, V2000 :)


I'm still with cassette!

When I worked at a luxury hifi brand, discounting was a no-no at anything more than 10% or the brand would be pulled. Dealers had to have expert knowledge and be able to demonstrate what was then a very technical product. The large discounters like Superfi were not allowed near the product as the brand wasnt to be devalued.

The initial manufacturing cost of product A was around £980 GBP, then the various costs, VAT and all that was added resulting in a retail price of £2300 - this gives you an idea how much a dealer potentially has to play with.

Our brand was slightly different in the fact that it was very dealer friendly - 2003's Product A could be upgraded to 2004 spec without the need to have lots of old stock laying around. A product first bought in 1999 could still be upgraded to the last upgrade of 2005 (when the company was folded neatly away by its owners, never to return).

With bikes, the owner could do that but it isnt worth the time or expense for the dealers and now theres all the marketing hype around different wheel sizes...

Its all going to get messy.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:30 pm 
BoTY & PoTM Winner
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jonnyboy666 wrote:
luckily i'm pretty happy with my fleet, sticking with predominantly retro means that the whole 650b thing is pretty irrelevant!

that said, my second Demon has been ordered and it's a 29er (i finally admitted to myself that that is what it is) :facepalm:

but back on topic, i think the bike trade should as a whole, have a massive rethink.

new models should be available in january and not before, this would mean that bikes would be sold up to xmas for kids at rrp, then discounted afterwards like normal department stores do, meaning a traditional discounting period, then hopefully the dealers can then concentrate on the new model which also would give them from february including spring and summer and autumn to sell the bikes, so the new model would be available for summer but crucially would effectively extend the selling period at RRP for the dealers.

the problem, i think, started when brands always tried to beat eachother getting their new model out, i seem to remember one year that the cheaper giant bikes up to about £400 were available in may but were actually the next year model. crazy.



The short retail year is certainly a contributory factor, and seems ridiculous to me.

I do think it a little sad in parts of what I have read about Atb sales too, Given the longevity of the partnership.

Given something I read that John posted ref the cycle show and the massive increase in Townie style and E-bike market, I wonder if someone will see the Value in a brand Such as Breezer, they have had Huge success in this market segment stateside, add to this the New Repack range and the new wheel sizes, im surprised no one has As yet taken up the brand.

Given ATB sales were the Original importer 2 decades ago, have they given any thought to this as a potential addition to there portfolio, or are they going to concentrate on what they currently have.?
I would have thought given there previous Good business practices and the fact that Now Breezer as a brand now have ASI, there could be some good that could come from a partnership such as this surely.?

Anything has to be better than Evans previous effort surely. There is a brand name there that could see some success here im sure, if carefully grown.
Especially as there must be decent IDs struggling to get decent brands into the stores to compete with the MO giants .
This is not forgetting the good that could be done with the growing Townie market that could also be catered for nicely, also expanding the ATB portfolio without infringing on other product lines currently in place.

I would think food for thought at least... :?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:45 am 
retrobike rider
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being an ex-marin dealer, I dealt with ATB and even drove down to hastings once to take a gander at their shelves. their marketing philosophy was spot on I thought, no discount, no dealers withon x miles of eachother and they had a very good brand to sell.
I was waiting for the Halfords equivalent of Godwins law on this thread and wasnt disapointed. Scary thing is Halfords are also promoting Hope as a brand, although I asked for some bearings for a bulb hub just for the comedy value of watching the sales bod become self aware (but not in a good way) that infact he knows nothing about high end bike components, you can almost set your watch by it.
As I started reading this thread I was thinking 'it wont be long before we see Marin in Halfords. (Saracen, GT, Voodoo......Hope!' (shudder).
RIP marin you were good and I genuinley hope (sic) that you rise from the ashes ala GT.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:56 am 
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Having been involved with Marin through their "golden years" it's sad to see the parting of the companies. But I think since ATB started diverting their ideas that were channelled through Marin, to Whyte, tensions were bound to rise. Marin's success was largely down to ATB giving Marin a huge amount of input (and Marin being smart enough to take it). Marin's new owners senior management wanted to stamp their authority on the brand. They wanted to grab control back. In the UK it wasn't going to work. I don't think Marin will have a great future in the UK. Whyte on the other hand will now have the full resources of ATB who's staff won't have to juggle both brands. Whyte has a bright future. There is just one persistent elephant in the room with ATB's future. But that's another story!

jonnyboy666 wrote:
http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/marin-and-atb-sales-split-after-25-years/015540

i have thought for quite a while that marin had lost there way, full suspension for example, when i was still in the trade i was selling the quadlink frames, they sold pretty well, the quadlink 2 version sold pretty well also, then they got a little too specific again, too xc and too freeride depending on your preference but still not quite right, then they changed to the newer design that is very trek/kona etc so very much not marin.

apparently the split is due to Whyte and Willier doing too well, sounds like rubbish to me.


Last edited by peter_holton on Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:45 pm 
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Quote:
When I worked at a luxury hifi brand, discounting was a no-no at anything more than 10% or the brand would be pulled. Dealers had to have expert knowledge and be able to demonstrate what was then a very technical product. The large discounters like Superfi were not allowed near the product as the brand wasnt to be devalued.

The initial manufacturing cost of product A was around £980 GBP, then the various costs, VAT and all that was added resulting in a retail price of £2300 - this gives you an idea how much a dealer potentially has to play with.


What brand was that?

That's quite a low mark-up, with most products the cost of manufacture/production will be about 20 to 25% of it's final retail price.


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