Retrobike Forum Index

It is currently Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:10 am

* Login   * Register * Search  * FAQ



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 112 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Free School Meals
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:38 pm 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:58 am
Posts: 743
Location: 钓鱼岛是中国的
technodup wrote:
Is only accounting for known fraud, otherwise how could they record it? If the DWP are finding 0.7% I think we can safely say the true amount is somewhat greater. Although how much nobody knows.

So your 'truth' isn't really the truth at all.


Can you? Can you really?

Do you just click your ruby red heels together and go "We can safely say... we can safely say... we can safely say..."

The stat I posted is the only thing here so far with actual scientific weight behind it. It has a margin of error, like everything else, but it is still the least wrong. Nobody has any actual evidence against it, just "well I feels" and "rifes".

Actual investigation and cold, rigidly defined numbers will always beat guesswork and blind faith. That's why the pope didn't win the space race.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Free School Meals
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:05 am 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:48 pm
Posts: 1666
Location: Glasgow
Bats wrote:
technodup wrote:
Is only accounting for known fraud, otherwise how could they record it? If the DWP are finding 0.7% I think we can safely say the true amount is somewhat greater. Although how much nobody knows.

So your 'truth' isn't really the truth at all.


Can you? Can you really?

Do you just click your ruby red heels together and go "We can safely say... we can safely say... we can safely say..."

The stat I posted is the only thing here so far with actual scientific weight behind it. It has a margin of error, like everything else, but it is still the least wrong. Nobody has any actual evidence against it, just "well I feels" and "rifes".
Well obviously, it's Rumsfeld's known unknown.

Unless you believe the DWP identifies fraud with 100% accuracy then there is more fraud than you claim. I will safely say that all day long, whether you agree or not.

If HMRC claimed they caught 0.7% evading tax I bet you'd agree there were more.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Free School Meals
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:01 pm 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:58 am
Posts: 743
Location: 钓鱼岛是中国的
The point is, darling dear, that you don't act on what you don't know.

Going "nurrr, that statistic is possibly slightly wrong, therefore it's crap!" is bloody useless when the alternative proposed is just guesswork. You're arguing that since we can never be totally accurate, we should just pull stuff out of our arses instead.

Which explains most tory viewpoints, really. Don't bother me with research, I've got a turtlehead sticking out.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Free School Meals
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:52 pm 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 4:18 pm
Posts: 2336
technodup wrote:
Is only accounting for known fraud, otherwise how could they record it?


Read it again (or possibly for the first time). That's _estimates_ of fraud, not actual known-and-counted cases. They _know_ they haven't got them all, that's how many they reckon they've not got. They could be wrong, but they've got margins of error and a degree of confidence that they're not a million miles off. The point is that there's at least a hint of an effort of rigorous analysis there, rather than tabloid-fuelled anecdotes.

It's just a pity that governments seem to pay more attention to the anecdotes than the numbers.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Free School Meals
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:24 pm 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:48 pm
Posts: 1666
Location: Glasgow
Bats wrote:
The point is, darling dear, that you don't act on what you don't know.
The point is you said...
Bats wrote:
Which isn't true.

MikeD wrote:
Read it again (or possibly for the first time). That's _estimates_ of fraud, not actual known-and-counted cases. They _know_ they haven't got them all, that's how many they reckon they've not got. They could be wrong, but they've got margins of error and a degree of confidence that they're not a million miles off.
I suggest you read it. By definition they haven't a clue what goes unreported.

The DWP Report wrote:
The estimates do not encompass all fraud and error. This is because
fraud is, by its nature, a covert activity, complex official error can be
difficult to identify and some suspicions of fraud on the sample cases
cannot be proven. For example, unreported earnings in the informal
economy will be much harder to detect than those in the formal economy.


What is good news is that is they get workfare off the ground fraud is likely to reduce. It's harder to work on the side when you've to turn up somewhere official every day.

*runs away*


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Free School Meals
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:29 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:55 am
Posts: 2922
Location: Dorset
Holly smoke Batman :lol:

Another Willy Wanging, using big words and rolling eyes emoticon to get my point across thread - well done lads

Damn I thought I had logged onto a Bike forum :!:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Free School Meals
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:38 pm 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:48 pm
Posts: 1666
Location: Glasgow
widowmaker wrote:
Damn I thought I had logged onto a Bike forum :!:
Confused internet user in off topic thread in off topic section shock.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Free School Meals
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:50 pm 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:58 am
Posts: 743
Location: 钓鱼岛是中国的
technodup wrote:
What is good news is that is they get workfare off the ground fraud is likely to reduce. It's harder to work on the side when you've to turn up somewhere official every day.

*runs away*


Well done for finding the bright side of slavery.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Free School Meals
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:13 pm 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:48 pm
Posts: 1666
Location: Glasgow
Bats wrote:
Well done for finding the bright side of slavery.
I'm finding the bright side in people who haven't found work in 24 months, not in a pub, shop, call centre, petrol station, supermarket, farm, etc in the whole of the UK, being compelled to do something for their keep.

If the squealers on CIF are right and it ends up about £2.30/h I'd say that's about right. After all these are the folk that can't demonstrate to an prospective employer they are worth minimum wage. In two years of supposedly trying.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Free School Meals
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:14 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:12 am
Posts: 680
Location: Anglesey
Historically, slaves never received any state hand-outs, as far as I'm aware.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 112 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

About Us

Follow Retrobike

Other cool stuff

All content © 2005-2015 Retrobike unless otherwise stated.
Cookies Policy.
bikedeals - the best bike deals in one place
FatCOGS - Fat Chance Owner's Group

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group