Retrobike Forum Index

It is currently Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:48 pm

* Login   * Register * Search  * FAQ



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 108 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 11  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:14 pm 
Special Retro Guru
Special Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:34 am
Posts: 5663
Location: Don't mess with monkeys, man
TGR wrote:
I re-read the report and note that the offence was Common Assault and not AOABH which would mean the the injured party suffered minimal injury (if any injury at all). It mentions 2 punches which is not 'repeatedly hitting' IMHO.


Just reread it myself. It also says this:-

BBC News webpage wrote:
Scarlett wiped his face of spit, opened the van door and intentionally "launched" himself at Uba, punching him twice, the court was told.


Note: "opened the van door and intentionally "launched" himself at Uba..." - so it doesn't look like an instinctive, immediate response, but looks like something done after a moment of consideration.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:45 pm 
Gold Trader
Gold Trader
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:28 pm
Posts: 3361
Location: The Admiral Benbow
meanwhile in chorley

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-la ... e-23914417


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:57 pm 
Old School Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:33 pm
Posts: 11105
Location: The Home Of Mountain Biking, And All Great Things.
All these keyboard warriors saying they would do the same, you are all trained police officers are you?

What if the person who spat at the officer was mentally impaired? A small female disabled person?

The fact is the police are trained to deal with violence. Launching into an assault on someone under your custody, regardless of the provocation, is unforgivable.

My sister in law is in the Met, and her comment on this was, "If that is the way he behaved in the open, what might he do inside a cell?"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:40 pm 
Old School Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:10 am
Posts: 4756
Location: Heathfield, East Sussex
Perhaps he was just sick of the scum he has to deal with day in, day out...

...beginning to think Marie Stopes had the right idea after all. :|


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:15 pm 
Special Retro Guru
Special Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:34 am
Posts: 5663
Location: Don't mess with monkeys, man
highlandsflyer wrote:
All these keyboard warriors saying they would do the same, you are all trained police officers are you?

What if the person who spat at the officer was mentally impaired? A small female disabled person?

The fact is the police are trained to deal with violence. Launching into an assault on someone under your custody, regardless of the provocation, is unforgivable.

My sister in law is in the Met, and her comment on this was, "If that is the way he behaved in the open, what might he do inside a cell?"


FPWM.

If he was prepared to open a van door to have another dip - it's not that much more of an extrapolation to think about opening a cell door and having another dig.

There's likely a reason why this copper was found guilty, perhaps more than shows in a brief webpage. But I suspect it's mostly due to it sounding like a premeditated response, as opposed to simply lashing out right when it happened.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:45 pm 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:25 pm
Posts: 606
Location: New Forest
highlandsflyer wrote:
The fact is the police are trained to deal with violence. Launching into an assault on someone under your custody, regardless of the provocation, is unforgivable


I'm ex job (having seen the light!), and whilst trained to deal with such situations and experienced the, first hand more than I care to recall I readily admit to having acted in a similar vain to this officer. It may be the situations were slightly different but the law says I could use reasonable force to protect myself or others, and if that meant I punched someone in order to stop them spitting at me and it happened to break their jaw then that's just tough, I wouldn't and didn't think twice about it. I myself have justified such levels of violence on a number of occasions, it may well just be this particular officers notes of the incident weren't upto scratch, he got unlucky with a clueless magistrate, or indeed his forces professional standards dept needed to meet their target of 'apprehended bent coppers' that month (no, I'm not making that last one up!).

It simply is not as black and white as the media reports would have you believe.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:24 pm 
Special Retro Guru
Special Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:34 am
Posts: 5663
Location: Don't mess with monkeys, man
retrocomeback wrote:
highlandsflyer wrote:
The fact is the police are trained to deal with violence. Launching into an assault on someone under your custody, regardless of the provocation, is unforgivable


I'm ex job (having seen the light!), and whilst trained to deal with such situations and experienced the, first hand more than I care to recall I readily admit to having acted in a similar vain to this officer. It may be the situations were slightly different but the law says I could use reasonable force to protect myself or others, and if that meant I punched someone in order to stop them spitting at me and it happened to break their jaw then that's just tough, I wouldn't and didn't think twice about it. I myself have justified such levels of violence on a number of occasions, it may well just be this particular officers notes of the incident weren't upto scratch, he got unlucky with a clueless magistrate, or indeed his forces professional standards dept needed to meet their target of 'apprehended bent coppers' that month (no, I'm not making that last one up!).

It simply is not as black and white as the media reports would have you believe.


Two things...

1:-

BBC News webpage wrote:
Scarlett wiped his face of spit, opened the van door and intentionally "launched" himself at Uba, punching him twice, the court was told.


Note: "opened the van door and intentionally "launched" himself at Uba..." - so it doesn't look like an instinctive, immediate response, but looks like something done after a moment of consideration.

2:-

BBC News webpage wrote:
We do not accept that the defendant honestly believed that he needed to use force to defend himself in these circumstances”

Sue Rose
Chair of the bench


If he opened the van door again, to have another go, he wasn't defending himself.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:28 pm 
Old School Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:10 am
Posts: 4756
Location: Heathfield, East Sussex
It would be interesting to have a time machine and be able to see accurately how long we have before society breaks down completely :|


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:33 pm 
Special Retro Guru
Special Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:34 am
Posts: 5663
Location: Don't mess with monkeys, man
We_are_Stevo wrote:
It would be interesting to have a time machine and be able to see accurately how long we have before society breaks down completely :|


I'm completely not getting this - are you saying finding a copper guilty for opening up a van door again, and walloping some ne'er-do-well a couple of times is suggestive that society is heading for meltdown?

What's the difference between that, and going into a cell and giving a kicking to some mouthy scrote?

I'm just waiting for the obligatory "when did you stop beating your wife?"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:44 pm 
Old School Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:17 pm
Posts: 3775
Location: Norn Iron
Another 2p's worth

I do see a difference in "going into a cell and giving a kicking to" anyone and the reaction to someone spitting into you mouth, irrespective of whether the officer had to open a door to get to the spitter or not.

Consider a normal person's reaction to the spit - Police officers may receive training in relation to use of force etc. but at the end of the day, they are people and sometimes will react to provocation. Reacting may, in some circumstances, be wrong and it appears in this case, the Court has found the officer to be in the wrong.

I do understand that within the confines of the law, the officer is in the wrong - spitting in someone's mouth will not cause them any immediate harm and there is not a need to protect yourself from impending injury etc BUT what I have been trying to explain is that, in my opinion, the officer reacted in a normal human way.

Richard


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 108 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 11  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: dyna-ti, elPedro666, Minifreak, royboy2cv, unkleGsif, xerxes and 17 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

About Us

Follow Retrobike

Other cool stuff

All content © 2005-2015 Retrobike unless otherwise stated.
Cookies Policy.
bikedeals - the best bike deals in one place
FatCOGS - Fat Chance Owner's Group

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group