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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:31 pm 
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spacerace89 wrote:
Craze from DS labs is most definetly a stimulant. almost makes you "speeded".


Quote:
Contains caffeine


And you raised Craze, see what I did there?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:35 pm 
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dyna-ti wrote:
Well, i had better start doing something about my weight, food intake and general fitness or i wont be here in 10 years.


Well try gradual changes, first - cut down on some things you know to be big-ticket-items, and try and be a bit more active. As you feel fitter, and lose some weight, you'll feel better for it, and it kind of helps assist being more focused on it.

Delve into a very restrictive diet and demanding exercise up front, and most people won't stick to it, will lose a bit, then bounce back (sometimes quite literally) even heavier.

Start gradual and make small, simple, yet consistent changes you can stick to as a lifestyle thing.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:44 pm 
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MADJEZ wrote:
I use a vegetable based health drink called 'Beer'. It's widely available in different
colours and since it's made from vegetables can count towards your 5-a-day. It has
a fruit-based counterparts called 'Wine' which has similar properties.

It contains special chemicals which make you feel like crap the following day so you
have to go out for a ride to clear your head :P

Image

For bulking up I can recommend mixing 'Beer' with a solid suplement called 'Pies'.

Image


Top marks for this reality check MADJEZ!! :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:05 pm 
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andyz wrote:
MADJEZ wrote:
I use a vegetable based health drink called 'Beer'. It's widely available in different
colours and since it's made from vegetables can count towards your 5-a-day. It has
a fruit-based counterparts called 'Wine' which has similar properties.

It contains special chemicals which make you feel like crap the following day so you
have to go out for a ride to clear your head :P

Image

For bulking up I can recommend mixing 'Beer' with a solid suplement called 'Pies'.

Image


Top marks for this reality check MADJEZ!! :lol: :lol:


Yup - nice work - the no-nonsense approach to diet and exercise. I feel it should be in keeping with John Smith's advertising ethos, though - so perhaps a bit of product placement wouldn't go amiss.

And the pie thing? Well I can see a service station / Alan Partridge thing going on there - or is that my overactive imagination?

I'm not a connoisseur of fine wines or beer, though - I've no idea if John Smith's is a decent pint, or that much different from "piss-warm Chango", never really done much of that drinking pints / booze / beer thing.

Anyways, you can do that, rub your belly lovingly, and say that old chestnut "Paid for..", and celebrate in ab (in the singular)!


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:48 pm 
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Beer is my secret shame, so i barely touch it any more. Not to say I don't miss it though...

I'm fairly careful with my diet, though it still isn't perfect.

My advice, for what it's worth, is to be sceptical of any advice until you've had a cold, hard look at the person giving it. I get a lot of scrawny weaklings telling me what to do, yet none of them seem to have a 34 waist, 54 chest and 19 inch pipes. A lot of personal trainers talk absolute bollocks and some are so puny I'm surprised they could lift a bag of chips to their mouth without having a hernia. Take your steer from people you meet who've been there and done it, and not just talked about it a lot to their clients.

I'm very fortunate that I've met an ex WSM finalist turned Olympic lifter, and we've stated in touch and his guidance is just priceless. If I can go 5 minutes without breaking any bones I'll be having another crack at the 120kg Masters division next year. 120+ might be achievable but I'm naturally ecto-mesomorphic so bulking another 9 or 10 kg of lean mass might be pushing it for me - I'm already 45lb heavier than when I made the switch from body building to lifting.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:06 pm 
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Chopper1192 wrote:
Beer is my secret shame, so i barely touch it any more. Not to say I don't miss it though...

I'm fairly careful with my diet, though it still isn't perfect.

My advice, for what it's worth, is to be sceptical of any advice until you've had a cold, hard look at the person giving it. I get a lot of scrawny weaklings telling me what to do, yet none of them seem to have a 34 waist, 54 chest and 19 inch pipes. A lot of personal trainers talk absolute bollocks and some are so puny I'm surprised they could lift a bag of chips to their mouth without having a hernia. Take your steer from people you meet who've been there and done it, and not just talked about it a lot to their clients.

I'm very fortunate that I've met an ex WSM finalist turned Olympic lifter, and we've stated in touch and his guidance is just priceless. If I can go 5 minutes without breaking any bones I'll be having another crack at the 120kg Masters division next year. 120+ might be achievable but I'm naturally ecto-mesomorphic so bulking another 9 or 10 kg of lean mass might be pushing it for me - I'm already 45lb heavier than when I made the switch from body building to lifting.


Yes, yes, yes, that's all well and good - but many people can only talk from their own perspective - that and no more. Truly - "We don't see things as they are. We see things as we are."

Appeal to authority, and people we know / met / talked to is just that. I've spoken to (more than once) a buy who won WSM, and was around to see the guy train several times, as well as get to chat with (no I don't mean in a seminar) a couple of times. I've chatted to quite a few top pro BBs in the past, and got to see them train, too - ultimately doesn't mean squat.

Your advice, regardless of what the person posting actually requested, is simply to advocate the type of training you do. And I get it - I said as much in my first reply - compound movements can be all well and good, if you're serious about training, and are about to invest the time and effort - and possibly coaching - to be able to do them safely, to the point that it makes sense.

Problem is, there's a whole deal of macho bullshit spouted about what to do in the gym, as well as tons of bro-science and dogma. For somebody relatively new, who wants to increase LBM, a decent, balanced, routine that is designed to work all the major muscle groups, with least risk, and most demands, is probably the safest, most resultant approach in the short term.

Focusing on compounds is just peachy if you intend to be good at the compounds and have a potential interest in powerlifting. But they can be high risk, and require quite a degree of initial focus on form and strength in areas that the trendy like to call "core" these days. So if you intend persuing powerlifting, or are really dedicated to being able to do them well and safely, they can either be essential, or pretty damn important. For everbody else, they are optional.

Whether they are optimal will depend on an awful lot of things. Being good at helping people with training and nutrition is more than simply being an advocate of what you do personally, it's being able to spot what they want, and what's best for them.

As somebody who's grown to love squats over the decades (and none of this namby-pamby, parallel shit - I'm talking proper ATG), I recognise them as a great exercise, that maketh man. Are they the best exercise for everybody wanting to improve strength and muscular size? Hell no.

Yes, there's many PTs in many gyms, that spout absolute bollocks. But you know what? They are overshadowed, comprehensively, by the number of people who train in gyms who spout absolute bollocks. When I first started lifting in 85, there was no such thing as PTs in the gyms I trained in - there were big sweaty, huge blokes, who tended to be the authority figure. And that's the problem that's blighted the iron game for so long - this notion that somehow being able to demonstrate results, actually means somebody knows what they're talking about. Many of the people that have succeeded have done so because of, as well as, or despite the things they believe made them able to demonstrate results. For yay too long there's been the notion that correlation must imply causation.

The concept that some will advocate what they know and choose, as being the panacea for others, is not unexpected, it happens the world and endeavour, over. Thing is, plenty of people may want help and advice - they may want help salient to another sport that they want lifting weights to assist with. They may have other issues or injuries they want to work around. There is no one-size fits all. Compounds can be useful, but require lots of attention to detail at first, before people really get a chance to screw themselves up, once ego and hormones get in on the act. Here's the thing, though - the only people who they are essential for, is powerlifters.

And that's not because I don't like doing compounds. Far from it - I've always done full squats and some kind of deadlifts, and for a good decade or so, like most, attacked and bragged about getting on the bench. But guess what, years and youthful exuberence, and thinking I was pretty much bombproof, meant that it's easy to get injuries and damage over the years - so for me, heavy benching is avoided because I'm trying to look after my shoulders - because I'd still l ike to be lifting in another 30 years.

Does that mean I'm unable to gain any upper body strength as a result? Nope.

By all means, stick to what you know and are good at. When it comes to being good at helping others? Well that rather involves some listening, and actual consideration as to what's best for them, beyond or despite of your own preferences.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:30 pm 
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Just out of curiosity how bulked are you Neil? And how lean? Body lard has always fluctuated a bit for me, one of my harder battles, but I'm happy to keep it under 15. I've given up close grip pressing after some rotator cuff grief but have no problems - so far - with a parallel grip or a decline press. My mecanno elbow isn't too bad but it needs scrupulous warming up first.

Just getting old and creaky I guess.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:17 pm 
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Chopper1192 wrote:
Just out of curiosity how bulked are you Neil? And how lean? Body lard has always fluctuated a bit for me, one of my harder battles, but I'm happy to keep it under 15. I've given up close grip pressing after some rotator cuff grief but have no problems - so far - with a parallel grip or a decline press. My mecanno elbow isn't too bad but it needs scrupulous warming up first.

Just getting old and creaky I guess.


Well I'm never gonna be a lightweight - been lifting since 85, so being skinny ain't my problem. I'm probably around 15% right now, but having a little more time for training, means I'm doing more cardio. Ideally, I'd like to maintain 10-12% year 'round. I don't always get that. The past year, or so, haven't been good for me, health wise, but the last few months have seen me be able to put in more time, and try and put my health and fitness a much higher priority.

Probably the first 8-10 years I was training, I would have probably considered myself a bodybuilder, then. I came from a background of martial arts in my mid teens, so when I first hit the iron, I wasn't entirely untrained. After that, I gravitated to boxing (not really competitively, though, not sure my endeavours could be considered that successful, there...). Some of that has always carried with me, in terms of other training I try and do (skip a lot, and do bag work as and when).

Strength wise, well I've never truly been in the powerlifting camp. Although I spent a good, solid amount of years making the big 3 the cornerstone of my training. As you, I've got some issues with rotator cuff - both shoulders - but can be helped with some specific exercises, and avoided things that aggravate - what I find is there's certain types of lift, or equipment, that cumulatively and progressively, as you tend to improve your poundages when returning to something - cause me a lot of shoulder grief and pain. So now, I work around them, avoid the things I know aggravate it. I bought a decent book about shoulder biomechanics, injury, and remediation some time back - and that, and lots of research and doing has helped me get to a point where I don't really miss the things I select not to do to avoid issue.

I've always enjoyed and embraced full squats. For some reason I could never get along with the leg press - I always felt squats suited me more, anyway. Slightly aside, but I first started doing single-leg-press around the early / mid 90s. But the only true, back injury I've had in the gym, with any true legacy, has been through heavy leg press. It's all to easy to round your lower back, especially if you're inclined to do more than 6 inches of travel. And that's what happened to me, some years back - got carried along with the hormones and ego, and pushed too hard, injured my lower back on the leg press, and the only time I've had issue with my lower back when squatting heavy, has been since then. Fortunately, SLP - asssuming suitable leg press equipment, rather non-intuitively, is probably the least risk of injury, but potentially capable of significant loading - and used by skaters and cyclists when training.

That said, it's still good to get under the squat bar - you don't get that many who squat - or at least do full squats, these days. I've never wrapped, though, and don't use a belt (well not in recent times - but like everybody in the 80s, I tended to wear one in the gym for everything!) and since injuring my back on the leg press some years back, and in a more minor fashion, trying to hit some decent weights (for me) under the squat bar some time after it, I've always been a bit slow and steady about loading up the bar - but then I don't have the impetus as much, because I don't have to hit the poundages and compete like you will have to. I find I can push increase in poundages in SLP, which then over time carries over in greater leg power in squats.

These days, I probably split focus half-and-half between weights, and some form of cardio. In terms of the types of poundages, well like many, who've trained a fairly long time, there's a certain, residual strength and level you tend to sustain. But I've had to learn in recent years, that as you age, it's so much easier to get injured, so much easier to remember your bolder, stronger years, and so much harder and longer to recover. So now I have to mitigate that, in the types of poundages I pursue. I have that luxury, though, even though sometimes ego tries to get the better of you - as a competitive powerlifter, I recognise that you don't.

Thing is, I'm not a bodybuilder, I'm not a powerlifter, I lift because I always have done, I suppose I'm at a reasonable level of strength compared with people who've trained as long, and similar build. These days, though, I'm as equally focused on fitness and health - that wasn't something I bothered about when younger - although that said, I never dabbled with PEDs - which explains my deep interest in nutrition and science on the subject - but all the same, when I was younger, I just went to the gym lifted, didn't really think that much about how healthy I was - just how I performed, and I suppose from a vain perspective, how I looked. Having had a hard year in terms of health, I've become very much more focused on actually being healthy and fit, too - rather than that just being a pleasant side effect.

I think where training is concerned, it's something I've done for (rather scarily) nearing 30 years. But then I like that, and I like longevity. Sometimes, my commitment hasn't always been consistent - sometimes, my training has been very hit and miss, and my fitness and bodyfat levels haven't always been great. But I've been doing it for a long time, and still want to be doing it for a long time - I have this, I suppose rather romanticised, view of still hitting the iron when I'm well into my 60s and 70s (as I saw the odd individual over the years) as a sort of lifelong commitment thing. Given I've been doing it for this long, perhaps it's not unreasonable - but recent times have shown me very much how we can all be at the mercy of illness for some things we very much take for granted.

Keep strong, buddy.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:00 am 
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