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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:20 pm 
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Isaac_AG wrote:
We will never have a perfect world whether under your advise or mine, facts are facts though and you cannot hide from them, what we need is early education, we need our offspring to know that drinking, smoking and over eating the wrong things without exercise is going to lead us into serious medical problems, something that the NHS can barely cope with. You can debate all you like but it will always boil down to what you eat/drink is what you are, and to loose weight, just like me, despite my so called fat inducing anti-psychotics, you have to reduce the amount of calories you consume and increase the amount of calories you use.

It's not rocket science.

Alison


That's the problem with this whole - "It's very simple" "It's not rocket science" perspective.

Of course the nuts and bolts are simple - it's the behaviourism that's complex. It's just like saying "Well if you don't wanna be fat, eat less, do more..." or to the people who smoke "Just stop smoking..." or the people who drink "Just stop drinking..." - I'm not buying that all the people that indulge to a degree that has negative impacts to health and well being do so purely for biological reasons, they do so for other "soft" reasons, too.

And to ignore that, and still persist with the trite "It's not rocket science" is closed minded ignorance, that people prefer because it suits their bias.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:26 pm 
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Isaac_AG wrote:
But that's what everyone has been saying, you change your lifestyle and you loose weight, you've been saying that weight can be due to illness and have nothing to do with diet. as I said it's all to do with input and output fat people whatever there illness or medication are fat, like me, because their input is more than their output, simple as.

Alison


That's just naive and blinkered, the reasons why people won't (en masse) just change their lifestyle, eat less, do more - are similar to why people won't cut down / give up cigarettes, reduce the alcohol they consume, or stop taking recreational or performance enhancing drugs.

Yes some people are always looking for an excuse. But in the western world, do you imagine there are many, many people who haven't started smoking, fully aware that cigarettes are significantly bad for their health? Or that regularly consuming significant amounts of booze are bad for them? Or that taking a pill in a night club, or some other drug? Or taking various drugs because they want to physically look better?

It's all to easy to be dismissive and critical when it's easy and suits people - quite often because they don't want to know any more than the nuts and bolts - because people like to criticise, because people like to have at least one group they can roundly point at to denigrate, one way or another.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:28 pm 
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Isaac_AG wrote:
highlandsflyer wrote:
Plenty of people who are overweight are already consuming a healthy diet and a healthy calorie intake.



Sorry bur when? I've avoided saying this because it sounds stupid, but starving people are never fat, because they simply are not taking in the calories that fat people are. you don't get obese serious anorexics, because they have a illness that makes them fat.

Alison


Starving people rarely have a problem with cigarettes, booze or recreational drugs, either.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:35 pm 
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No, it isn't rocket science, yes the answer is just to give up, I'm not saying that is easy to everyone, I smoked from 9 till I was 22 and because of some very bad ill effects I gave up, I didn't cut down or have one or two now and again, one day I was a heavy smoker 40-50 a day to a complete non smoker in a day, I'm 46 and have not had one since that day, yet the giving up of alcohol every day has been more difficult. It isn't rocket science what a person should do, that's obvious even to the stupid, it's actually going from one habit to another that's difficult and I never said that wasn't, I was saying that over consuming makes people fat, not illness or meds, they may not help but it still is and will always be a matter of input V output. You don't need a masters to understand that.

Alison


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:39 pm 
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Neil wrote:
Isaac_AG wrote:
highlandsflyer wrote:
Plenty of people who are overweight are already consuming a healthy diet and a healthy calorie intake.



Sorry bur when? I've avoided saying this because it sounds stupid, but starving people are never fat, because they simply are not taking in the calories that fat people are. you don't get obese serious anorexics, because they have a illness that makes them fat.

Alison


Starving people rarely have a problem with cigarettes, booze or recreational drugs, either.


This thread is not about those it's about weight, actually it's about being fat and damaged and not being able to strip in the summer to T-shirt and shorts and cool down because of my inability to cope without resulting in self harm, which is just as addictive as those you've mentioned just emotionally addictive rather than physically so.

Alison


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:42 pm 
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Isaac_AG wrote:
No, it isn't rocket science, yes the answer is just to give up, I'm not saying that is easy to everyone, I smoked from 9 till I was 22 and because of some very bad ill effects I gave up, I didn't cut down or have one or two now and again, one day I was a heavy smoker 40-50 a day to a complete non smoker in a day, I'm 46 and have not had one since that day, yet the giving up of alcohol every day has been more difficult. It isn't rocket science what a person should do, that's obvious even to the stupid, it's actually going from one habit to another that's difficult and I never said that wasn't, I was saying that over consuming makes people fat, not illness or meds, they may not help but it still is and will always be a matter of input V output. You don't need a masters to understand that.

Alison


If it was so simple, for people just to behave differently, en masse, then they would be.

If it's as simple as you make out, give up booze, completely, for one month starting from tomorrow.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:44 pm 
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Isaac_AG wrote:
Neil wrote:
Isaac_AG wrote:
Sorry bur when? I've avoided saying this because it sounds stupid, but starving people are never fat, because they simply are not taking in the calories that fat people are. you don't get obese serious anorexics, because they have a illness that makes them fat.

Alison


Starving people rarely have a problem with cigarettes, booze or recreational drugs, either.


This thread is not about those it's about weight, actually it's about being fat and damaged and not being able to strip in the summer to T-shirt and shorts and cool down because of my inability to cope without resulting in self harm, which is just as addictive as those you've mentioned just emotionally addictive rather than physically so.

Alison


So it's not quite as simple as just stopping, then.

Funny, that.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:51 pm 
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I didn't say everything was simple to give up, I said the reasons and answers are simple, and sometimes the giving up is simple like I gave up smoking, I drink alcohol on Fridays, I used to do it every night of the week. I just enjoy my Friday nights, yes I admit that I really look forward to Friday nights, it's become my and my husbands night together, we have a couple of beers and talk, the rest of the week, I cook, tidy and he plays bloomin Warcraft :roll:

I never said giving up anything was the rocket science, bit just the reason's why people gain weight.

Alison


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:55 pm 
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Isaac_AG wrote:
I was saying that over consuming makes people fat, not illness or meds, they may not help but it still is and will always be a matter of input V output. You don't need a masters to understand that.


The fact is you can be consuming an appropriate diet for your body but not exercising enough.

To reduce the intake can mean your body is being malnourished. Sometimes it is better to focus on exercise because your diet is spot on.

No argument really, just hesitant to go along with this constant labelling of overweight people as over consumers rather than under exercisers. Given that a reduction in one's normal exercise can be due to many things.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:05 am 
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Malnourishment is not necessarily got anything to do with the amount you eat or how little you eat but how well you eat, a good balanced diet, with nutritious home-made food, not junk, will not only keep you slim but will keep you good and healthy, some of the slimmest people don't necessarily exercise, exercise keeps you fit and helps, with a healthy balanced diet, to keep your weight down, it is not an excuse to eat anything.

Alison


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