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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:24 pm
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Two mopeds?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:50 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:13 pm
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Location: Skipton
The VW DSG auto boxes always seem to get a good write up so worth looking at a VW Polo, Seat Ibiza or Skoda Fabia (all basically the same car). My mate has a manual 58 reg Ibiza Ecosomething and that does real world 75mpg and is free to tax.

I'm a Ford fan, love my Focus and enjoyed the drive of the current Fiesta so would highly recommend both but have not tried the auto versions.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:18 am 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:45 pm
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Location: Birmingham
I Once owned a suzuki alto auto , it was from around 1986 although i had it second hand in around 1992.

my little suzi only had a 790 cc engine. at the time i was paid 47 p a mile from work to visit kids up and down the country. the tank cost £20 to fill. and she would do 200 -250 ish miles on that of motorway.

i could get to blackpool and back on one tank. so for my £20 full tank , and 250 miles at 47 p i would get £120 ish back.

that car used to make me money, i loved that car ,she never missed a beat and had very quick acceleration She was however made of tin foil and plastic, driving her on the motorway was scary as feck , i used to cry on windy days as i was blown from lane to lane.

sold her because of never feeling safe and knowing if i had a crash she would just disintegrate.

I also had an auto toyota corrolla, great car, nice and strudy but very heavy , 1.3 engine. guzzled petrol though.

currently have a daihatsu sirion auto 1.3 and she is really good on gas, i get two weeksish of heavy city driving from a £43 full tank.

so go for autos old and light with a tiny engine, or lots newer with slightly bigger engine . and go for jap cars, never had a bit of trouble with the suzi or toyota and so far with the daihatsu


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:42 am
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brocklanders023 wrote:
The VW DSG auto boxes always seem to get a good write up so worth looking at a VW Polo, Seat Ibiza or Skoda Fabia (all basically the same car).
Except for the utterly astronomic cost of servicing or repairing the DSG.
TBH, you won't find a proper auto with a small engine that gives you anything decent on fuel consumption. The losses in the pump and torque converter are massive. (usually in the order of 8-10% of the output of the engine)
As mentioned above, a powered shift manual like the Aygo or Fiesta would be far better, and a single shaft gearbox (the DSG uses two shafts) for simplicity and low cost. The Honda Jazz is also available with a similar gearbox.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:27 am 
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mattr wrote:
brocklanders023 wrote:
The VW DSG auto boxes always seem to get a good write up so worth looking at a VW Polo, Seat Ibiza or Skoda Fabia (all basically the same car).
Except for the utterly astronomic cost of servicing or repairing the DSG.
TBH, you won't find a proper auto with a small engine that gives you anything decent on fuel consumption. The losses in the pump and torque converter are massive. (usually in the order of 8-10% of the output of the engine)
As mentioned above, a powered shift manual like the Aygo or Fiesta would be far better, and a single shaft gearbox (the DSG uses two shafts) for simplicity and low cost. The Honda Jazz is also available with a similar gearbox.

Depending on gearbox and type, though, fairly modern-ish ones may not be as bad as some make out, in terms of losses and economy.

A lot of the negatives are historic, anything electronically controlled from probably around early-to-mid 90s onwards, will have lock-up in the torque converter, in probably most gears. So if you did a fair amount of motorway or open road driving, you'd probably not notice loads of difference. It would be stop / start and initial acceleration where the losses manifest.

That said, that's probably not the typical driving environment for a small auto, and they don't tend to be as suitable with smaller engines, and as implemented in smaller cars. Problem is, other types of autos tend to be not as great on longevity or reliability - either that, or servicing and repair costs tend to be significant (more so then conventional autos, and perhaps more likelihood too).


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:59 am 
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Nah, modern ones are pretty rubbish as well.
And the further you get away from the test cycle they do to give the headline figures, the worse it gets. Especially with smaller engine outputs. (and the cheaper gearboxes fitted.)

Well, that was the case last week anyway ;)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:16 pm 
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mattr wrote:
Nah, modern ones are pretty rubbish as well.
And the further you get away from the test cycle they do to give the headline figures, the worse it gets. Especially with smaller engine outputs. (and the cheaper gearboxes fitted.)

Well, that was the case last week anyway ;)


I drove a "modern" conventional auto for about 10 years. Now true enough, it was in an inline 5 2.5 engine, not the last word in fuel economy. But compared to it's manual equivalent, it was only (official figures) 0.4 seconds slower to 62, and in the real world (given I mostly drove on the open road, rather than stop / start) I suspect not that different in terms of fuel economy. Stop / start and urban driving with plenty of acceleration killed the fuel economy.

Most modern, electronically controlled, planetary gear, torque converter gearboxes, will have lock-up on most if not all forward ratios. When that's locked up, there's no loss due to spinning ATF, and they're probably better are choosing a more suitable, economic ratio than a normal driver - so depending on type of driving and driving style, the difference can be not that great.

As I said, not well suited to smaller engines, which typically means smaller cars - but then, these days, typically more reliable than some of the autos that tend to get used in smaller cars (CVTs, DSG-type boxes) that are either longevity-challenged, or horrendously expensive to do any maintenance on, or both.

Reasonably modern traditional autos are a world away from the hydraulic-computer, brake-band type autos of yesteryear. Electronic control, multi-pack clutches, and solenoid actuation, as well as manufacturing improvements, decent software, modes, and torque converter locking made them a reasonable proposition, given a reasonable torque output from the engine, and either not wanting the absolute in fuel economy, or little stop-start driving.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:42 am
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Ok, I'll hand in my notice tomorrow. I obviously don't know enough to do my job. :cry:





:wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:48 pm
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Get a Bond Bug and laugh yourself silly till you wet yourself.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:26 pm 
Special Retro Guru
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mattr wrote:
Ok, I'll hand in my notice tomorrow. I obviously don't know enough to do my job. :cry:





:wink:


An historic "me too".


Last edited by Neil on Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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