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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:01 am 
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Location: It's not easy being a dolphin.
FairfaxPat wrote:
I ride pretty much every day, I wear a helmet, and, due to riding 4000 + miles per year, I manage to fall off numerous times during a typical year in the dirt. I also usually manage to whack my head on low hanging branches a couple of times, too, which is also where the helmet comes in handy! I got tired of hurting myself on impact and am wearing elbow pads these days, and I just ordered some cycling shorts with hip and tail bone pads built in. It's really cheap insurance IMHO. If you look at a typical DH rider, he's armored up to the Max, because he knows he's gonna fall off now and again, and wants to just pop back up and resume riding, which is pretty much what happens. We have an old saying around here that goes-"If you've got a Ten Cent Head, then wear a Ten Cent helmet". By the way, in California helmet wearing is mandatory for under 18 riders, although it isn't really enforced...


Pat, I noticed your kit when there, and well justified; if I was in that part of the world with the great off-road mountains you have I would definitely invest in a solid helmet. I've got myself some longs with padded knees and hips to cushion any eventual winter slide outs on ice; but so far so good with studded tires.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:14 am 
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I'd love to try riding ice on studded tires-the ice racing motorcycles have fenders that wrap most of the way around the tire, to save impaling other people when they slide out... :shock:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:15 am 
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highlandsflyer wrote:
GJW, am I missing something? I don't note all the posters demanding no improvement in helmet design.

My old truck had no seat belts, so I installed some.

I do whatever I can to improve my, and my family's safety.

When there is a consensus on new helmet designs I will move there, just like I moved to a modern car with all the safety gear for our high speed long distance journeys.

When it comes to any emerging technology, taking an extreme view is for the extremists.

The rest of us keep our minds open until we see the hard facts, or the new technology is adopted across the board so we don't have to get waste deep in the crap flying about.


Would I therefore be right in saying that you would sit happily in an... I don't fully understand the complexity of the science and engineering involved, and so will wait to see what others do first category?

And I am not intending to be at all demeaning in saying that because the science is both complex and poorly researched. And the the current engineering solutions remain untested in real accidents. I doubt that given the current level of research, that anyone understands what happens to real human heads during the very wide range of possible accidents.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:24 am 
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Location: Heathfield, East Sussex
Try this bit of simple research...

...go outside, lean your head against a brick wall then have someone kick your feet out from under you.

Did that hurt?

Now try it without the helmet... :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:31 am 
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We_are_Stevo wrote:
Try this bit of simple research...

...go outside, lean your head against a brick wall then have someone kick your feet out from under you.

Did that hurt?

Now try it without the helmet... :lol:


Same result, my nose and chin got scratched on both accounts.

I'll send you the bill for the disinfectant and the bandages


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:32 am 
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GrahamJohnWallace wrote:
highlandsflyer wrote:
GJW, am I missing something? I don't note all the posters demanding no improvement in helmet design.

My old truck had no seat belts, so I installed some.

I do whatever I can to improve my, and my family's safety.

When there is a consensus on new helmet designs I will move there, just like I moved to a modern car with all the safety gear for our high speed long distance journeys.

When it comes to any emerging technology, taking an extreme view is for the extremists.

The rest of us keep our minds open until we see the hard facts, or the new technology is adopted across the board so we don't have to get waste deep in the crap flying about.


Would I therefore be right in saying that you would sit happily in an... I don't fully understand the complexity of the science and engineering involved, and so will wait to see what others do first category?

And I am not intending to be at all demeaning in saying that because the science is both complex and poorly researched. And the the current engineering solutions remain untested in real accidents. I doubt that given the current level of research, that anyone understands what happens to real human heads during the very wide range of possible accidents.


No, you would not be right at all. There is only time enough in life to achieve so many tasks, and carrying out extensive research into everything is not on the cards. If I see hard facts before everyone else adopts a technology I will act upon them. I stated that. "The rest of us keep our minds open until we see the hard facts, or the new technology is adopted across the board so we don't have to get waste deep in the crap flying about."

I would imagine my ability to understand the mix of physiology and physics here would be as good as the majority of posters.

Wading through lots of inconclusive and contradictory 'studies' is really not necessary for me to form an opinion.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:38 am 
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We_are_Stevo wrote:
Because the majority of helmet wearers recognise that in the type of incident that most cyclists are likely to encounter (minimal impact/dermabrasions) even a cheap, disposable skid lid hitting something hard before their head/face is, well, a no brainer...

...someone, somewhere above suggested that any given bunch of stat's are skewed due to the non-reporting of minor incidents and they hit the nail fairly and squarely on its non-helmeted head; I have taken a tumble on numerous occasions and scraped, gouged or dented a riding/cycle/crash/para/cycle helmet in the process but not once required medical attention (sectioning may have been more appropriate in hindsight! :lol: ) and certainly never reported them anywhere, until now...

...which is the point I think a lot of people are making.

Without a helmet I would have left a considerable amount of skin/hair/blood scattered half way around the world that I am glad to be still attached to!

And whilst I am more than capable of Rambo'esque DIY surgery I'd much rather not have to prove it these days :wink:


I am trying to be very specific in stating that current helmets appear to have a problem absorbing the energies involved in certain types of low energy impacts that cause head injuries and concussion. I have no doubt that current helmets do provide protection from lacerations, grazing, bruising etc. Or in fact from linear impacts of between 7mph and 14mph against flat surfaces. I think that the misunderstanding here is because of the number of possible interpretations of the term "head injury". As far as I can remember the term "head injury" in the graphs I have posted refers to hospital admissions and not just visits to A&E. And as such they would not, as you and others have said, Indicate how effective helmets are in preventing minor injuries.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:54 am 
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SWMBO used to work in a mortuary in a previous life, still works in the care industry (all be it in a somewhat higher capacity) and keeps her PIN up to date; as such she is able to show me truly horrifying photo's online of the kind of fatal injuries cyclists suffer that no amount of PPE is going to prevent!

Thankfully the majority of cyclists will only encounter the type of helmet/hard surface interface I have suggested above, walk away and thank whatever powers that be that they were imbued at an early age with a modicum of common sense.

A lot of those in the 'Pro' camp have, like myself, good cause to fall into the above category; however, none of us are even halfway as vitriolic as the 'nay-sayers' in defence of our personal opinions...

...one can't help but wonder why?

My old Nan always used to say 'Empty vessels make more noise.' Bless... :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:01 am 
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While she was slapping your head no doubt.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:02 am 
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We_are_Stevo wrote:
Try this bit of simple research...

...go outside, lean your head against a brick wall then have someone kick your feet out from under you.

Did that hurt?

Now try it without the helmet... :lol:


Without a helmet of course you will do some painful damage.
But dropping vertically onto concrete causes a linear impact. Being hit in the back of the head by a lorry mirror causes an initial linear impact. And linear impacts between 7-14mph are what current helmets are designed to absorb.

Scientists could not understand why woodpeckers did not give themselves concussion, so they analysed what was going on. What they found is that their heads did not swing like a hammer but moved in perfectly straight line. No rotation equaled no brain damage despite the large and repeated nature of the impacts with no apparent adaptions of the skull or brain.


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